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The State of Ohio

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Ohio voters won't decide on a minimum wage hike this fall - we look into why. And an Ohio based program is bringing tens of thousands of public school kids to Bible study - with parents rights at the heart of the debate over it. Interview guests are Zachary Parrish, Molly Gaines and Gary Click.

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00:00:39	Ohio voters won't decide on
00:00:39	a minimum wage hike this fall.
00:00:43	We look into why.
00:00:44	And an Ohio based program
00:00:44	is bringing tens of thousands
00:00:47	of public school kids
00:00:48	to Bible study
00:00:49	with parents right at the
00:00:49	heart of the debate over it.
00:00:52	That's this
00:00:52	weekend, the state of Ohio.
00:01:12	Welcome to the state of Ohio.
00:01:14	I'm Karen Kasler.
00:01:16	The plan
00:01:16	to overhaul the process
00:01:17	for drawing lawmakers
00:01:17	district lines
00:01:20	seems likely
00:01:20	to be the only one on the fall
00:01:20	ballot
00:01:23	after backers turned down
00:01:23	nearly double
00:01:25	the number of valid signatures
00:01:25	they need.
00:01:27	But a group
00:01:27	hoping to ask voters
00:01:29	to increase
00:01:30	the minimum wage in Ohio said
00:01:30	at the deadline on July 30th.
00:01:33	It was close, but
00:01:34	did not get enough signatures
00:01:34	in some rural counties.
00:01:38	But as my Statehouse
00:01:38	news Bureau colleague Sarah
00:01:39	Donaldson reports,
00:01:40	what went wrong with
00:01:41	the campaign depends
00:01:41	on who you ask.
00:01:44	For months, paid circulators
00:01:44	and volunteers with Raise
00:01:47	the Wage
00:01:47	Ohio have been
00:01:47	getting signatures
00:01:49	to put a proposed
00:01:49	constitutional amendment
00:01:51	before voters.
00:01:53	The amendment
00:01:53	would have boosted
00:01:54	the minimum wage in the state
00:01:54	for most workers to $12.75
00:01:58	per hour by 2025,
00:01:58	and $15 per hour by 2026.
00:02:03	It also would have eventually
00:02:03	gotten rid
00:02:04	of the sub
00:02:04	minimum wage for some workers
00:02:06	making gratuities
00:02:06	like servers and bartenders.
00:02:09	That stuck out to Evan Holt.
00:02:11	Holt is a long time
00:02:11	restaurant and bar worker
00:02:13	who ran for Cincinnati
00:02:13	City Council and lost in 2021.
00:02:17	He says
00:02:17	he cared about the issue,
00:02:19	but that raised the wage.
00:02:20	Ohio's effort was marred by
00:02:20	dysfunction and mismanagement.
00:02:23	It seemed like a huge waste
00:02:23	of time, effort on my part.
00:02:26	Hope work.
00:02:27	Two brief stints with Raise
00:02:27	the Wage Ohio, leading
00:02:30	canvasing efforts
00:02:30	in Cincinnati and its suburbs.
00:02:32	At first,
00:02:33	he says, it was a struggle
00:02:33	to get anything in the office
00:02:36	because more pens
00:02:36	and more printer
00:02:38	ink and things like that.
00:02:39	And somehow we were like,
00:02:40	never getting these basic
00:02:40	things that we needed.
00:02:43	Within a few months, Holl
00:02:44	quit because of issues
00:02:45	with the regional organizing
00:02:45	director,
00:02:47	who he says was fired
00:02:47	a month later.
00:02:49	He started again in October
00:02:49	and then left again
00:02:52	by early 2024,
00:02:52	saying he felt frustrated
00:02:54	with the way
00:02:55	it was being led to canvassers
00:02:55	managing the office
00:02:58	in his absence
00:02:58	eventually quit too.
00:03:00	We could call one thing
00:03:00	one week
00:03:01	and the next week we're doing
00:03:01	something different,
00:03:03	you know.
00:03:04	Moriah Ross,
00:03:04	the initiative state director,
00:03:06	did not answer a request for
00:03:06	comment on Holt's allegations.
00:03:10	Two days
00:03:10	before signatures were due,
00:03:11	the anti gerrymandering
00:03:11	organization Citizens
00:03:14	Not Politicians
00:03:14	was celebrating
00:03:15	submitting nearly double
00:03:15	the number of signatures
00:03:18	needed in the Ohio State House
00:03:18	atrium.
00:03:20	Volunteers
00:03:20	with Raise the Wage.
00:03:22	Ohio lingered
00:03:22	on the peripheral
00:03:23	for a last minute
00:03:23	signature push.
00:03:26	Ben Kindle, a spokesperson
00:03:27	with Secretary of State
00:03:27	Frank LaRosa
00:03:29	office, says his interactions
00:03:29	were similarly disorganized.
00:03:33	They were told several
00:03:33	different signature
00:03:34	delivery times before
00:03:34	raise the wage.
00:03:36	Ohio decided not to submit.
00:03:38	The organization
00:03:39	blamed some of its shortfalls
00:03:39	on violence
00:03:41	and intimidation toward
00:03:41	its nonwhite canvassers.
00:03:45	A statement on July 3rd
00:03:46	said they were verbally abused
00:03:46	and harassed.
00:03:48	It was the first time
00:03:48	the potential issue
00:03:50	had been highlighted publicly.
00:03:52	In an earlier interview,
00:03:52	Ross said.
00:03:54	Some of that alleged treatment
00:03:54	came from law enforcement
00:03:57	agencies,
00:03:57	including the Dark and Preble
00:03:59	County Sheriff's Offices.
00:04:01	We even had sheriffs
00:04:02	in multiple counties
00:04:03	escort our canvassers
00:04:03	out of the county,
00:04:05	telling them,
00:04:05	if you want to collect
00:04:06	in my county,
00:04:06	you need a permit from us.
00:04:08	But both sheriff's offices
00:04:08	rebutted those claims.
00:04:11	Stark County Sheriff
00:04:11	Mark Whitaker
00:04:13	said one of his men
00:04:13	told a person
00:04:14	circulating a petition
00:04:14	to move on from a ten
00:04:16	at the sales
00:04:16	Poultry days in mid-June.
00:04:19	The Dark County Sheriff's
00:04:20	Office did not ask
00:04:20	or anybody to the county line
00:04:23	or throw
00:04:23	anybody out of the county.
00:04:25	Circulating
00:04:25	a petition is a right
00:04:26	guaranteed
00:04:26	under the First Amendment,
00:04:28	but it can get dicey in places
00:04:30	that are not entirely public.
00:04:32	The American Civil Liberties
00:04:32	Union says it's not soliciting
00:04:35	to gather signatures
00:04:35	outside of a festival
00:04:37	or affair
00:04:37	held on public grounds,
00:04:39	but organizers can prevent
00:04:39	canvassers
00:04:41	from doing
00:04:41	so within the event.
00:04:43	Ross says, raised the wage
00:04:43	Ohio did not file anything
00:04:46	officially on the violence
00:04:46	and intimidation claim.
00:04:48	When asked why he did
00:04:50	not offer more details
00:04:50	about or evidence
00:04:52	of the alleged dark in Pueblo
00:04:52	County incidents,
00:04:55	Holt says his canvassers
00:04:55	never ventured
00:04:57	outside of the Greater
00:04:57	Cincinnati area,
00:04:59	but that nothing,
00:05:00	to his knowledge
00:05:00	on his watch cross
00:05:00	into threats of violence.
00:05:04	The coalition will try again
00:05:04	for 2025, a year likely to see
00:05:07	significantly lower turnout,
00:05:09	although they are eyeing
00:05:09	a later ballot.
00:05:11	Ross says they want to submit
00:05:11	all their signatures
00:05:13	by the end of this summer,
00:05:13	so that fewer are invalidated.
00:05:17	We don't want to waste
00:05:17	the work
00:05:19	that has gone into this
00:05:19	from all the people
00:05:21	who are canvasing for us.
00:05:22	To all the people
00:05:22	who have signed up,
00:05:24	it's all the money
00:05:24	that has been invested.
00:05:26	We don't want to waste that.
00:05:27	Hold said he wasn't shocked
00:05:28	when he saw the organization
00:05:28	didn't make the ballot.
00:05:31	He did feel discouraged.
00:05:33	I just don't know why
00:05:33	it had to be the way it was.
00:05:36	Of the 28 proposals
00:05:36	to increase
00:05:38	the minimum wage in states
00:05:38	across the country since 1996,
00:05:42	26 of them have gone
00:05:42	through their Donaldson.
00:05:46	Statehouse. News bureau.
00:05:48	This week, a former teacher
00:05:48	hired by the Ohio based
00:05:51	Christian nonprofit
00:05:51	Lifeways Academy was dismissed
00:05:54	after it was publicly revealed
00:05:54	that she had been fired
00:05:57	from a high school
00:05:57	teaching position in 2018.
00:06:00	Over reports
00:06:00	that she sent sexual
00:06:02	and explicit texts
00:06:02	to students.
00:06:04	A member of the group Parents
00:06:04	Against Life, Wise,
00:06:07	is taking credit
00:06:07	for discovering
00:06:08	the teacher's past,
00:06:09	which LifeWay said
00:06:09	she didn't fully disclose,
00:06:12	though
00:06:12	she never faced charges.
00:06:15	But the incident has fueled
00:06:15	more criticism
00:06:17	against the program,
00:06:17	which is enrolled
00:06:18	30,000 students in 12 states
00:06:18	since it started in 2019.
00:06:23	Life wise,
00:06:23	which is based in Hilliard,
00:06:25	allows kids to leave school
00:06:25	for Bible based instruction.
00:06:28	That's privately funded
00:06:28	but free to participants.
00:06:31	Life wise features
00:06:32	a sample of its curriculum
00:06:32	on its website.
00:06:35	Life wise is suing Zachary
00:06:36	Parish of Fort Wayne, Indiana,
00:06:36	for copyright infringement
00:06:40	for publishing
00:06:40	the full curriculum after
00:06:42	he accessed it on the LifeWay
00:06:42	site.
00:06:44	Parrish is one of the founders
00:06:46	of Parents Against Life Wise,
00:06:48	and the father of
00:06:48	an elementary school student
00:06:50	whose school
00:06:50	participates in the program.
00:06:52	I was just looking
00:06:52	and investigating.
00:06:54	I mean, really, yeah,
00:06:54	it wasn't it
00:06:55	with the intent to go
00:06:55	look at the curriculum?
00:06:57	No, but it was just
00:06:57	with the intent
00:06:59	to see what it was about, to
00:06:59	look at the background checks,
00:07:01	to look at the training,
00:07:01	to look at the certification.
00:07:04	I definitely had no intent
00:07:04	of being a volunteer.
00:07:06	I was just trying to gather
00:07:06	information
00:07:08	and I got into the curriculum,
00:07:08	but that was not my intent
00:07:11	of what I was looking for
00:07:11	specifically.
00:07:14	And now, Molly,
00:07:14	you met up with Zachary,
00:07:17	through the internet,
00:07:17	essentially that, there were
00:07:20	these posts out there about
00:07:20	what was going on life wise.
00:07:23	So you are also concerned
00:07:23	about what life
00:07:26	wise has been teaching kids,
00:07:26	essentially?
00:07:29	Yeah, absolutely.
00:07:30	you know, from what
00:07:30	we've heard,
00:07:32	they're touting themselves
00:07:32	as non-denominational.
00:07:35	They're making themselves
00:07:35	seem to be very innocent,
00:07:38	like, your Bible school
00:07:38	from the past,
00:07:41	you know, that our
00:07:41	grandparents would have talked
00:07:42	about singing songs,
00:07:42	coloring this sort of thing.
00:07:45	and the further we dig,
00:07:47	the more we find out,
00:07:47	and the more it becomes
00:07:49	apparent that that is not
00:07:49	what it's occurring.
00:07:51	they're very in-depth.
00:07:53	curriculums
00:07:53	for elementary school
00:07:55	kids, stuff
00:07:55	that's dealing with, like,
00:07:57	Sodom and Gomorrah,
00:07:57	the story of Ruth.
00:08:00	just some things that are
00:08:00	they they require a nuanced,
00:08:05	you know, talk when you're
00:08:05	dealing with young children
00:08:08	for these types of lessons.
00:08:10	And these teachers
00:08:10	don't have any certifications.
00:08:12	They're not required to.
00:08:14	so that's, that's concerning
00:08:14	in and of its own.
00:08:16	and then I,
00:08:17	you know, like you said,
00:08:18	the further we got into it,
00:08:18	the more we discovered
00:08:20	and they're not doing
00:08:20	background checks.
00:08:22	It's basically
00:08:22	a consumer report.
00:08:24	You know, they can tell you
00:08:24	that they're
00:08:25	doing a background check.
00:08:27	but that there's
00:08:27	so many different kinds
00:08:29	of background checks
00:08:29	that you need
00:08:31	to really find out what it is
00:08:31	that they're doing.
00:08:33	And we found out
00:08:33	that they were
00:08:35	at the time using a company
00:08:35	called Protect My Ministry.
00:08:38	and that is where Zach would
00:08:38	have put his information.
00:08:41	And just as though he was
00:08:41	wanting to be a volunteer.
00:08:44	and he did submit
00:08:44	all of his real information.
00:08:47	Zach has, a bit of a past
00:08:47	from being younger.
00:08:50	Nothing serious.
00:08:51	Drugs and alcohol,
00:08:51	that sort of thing.
00:08:52	But he would not have been
00:08:52	given
00:08:54	an Ohio teaching license ever.
00:08:56	Currently at this state
00:08:56	in time in his life.
00:08:58	If he wanted to,
00:08:58	he would not be given one.
00:09:00	And life was passed him
00:09:01	through immediately,
00:09:01	gave him access
00:09:03	to all the training materials,
00:09:03	gave him a certificate.
00:09:06	He could go right now
00:09:06	and buy a LifeWay shirt.
00:09:08	Well, anyone can do that.
00:09:09	I haven't take the training
00:09:09	and I have a life white shirt.
00:09:12	so. But he could go
00:09:12	and do that
00:09:14	and walk up to a school
00:09:14	and essentially pass
00:09:16	himself off as being someone
00:09:17	who is affiliated
00:09:17	and works with life wise.
00:09:19	What did you find when you got
00:09:19	into the curriculum?
00:09:22	Because, again,
00:09:24	the curriculum is not posted
00:09:24	on the Life Wise website.
00:09:27	It's just a sample curriculum.
00:09:30	What did you find out
00:09:31	and what did you do with
00:09:31	that when you found it out?
00:09:34	Oh, well, I mean,
00:09:36	it's kind of the typical thing
00:09:36	that you would think it is.
00:09:38	It's, you know, marriages
00:09:38	between a man and a woman
00:09:41	that's referenced in there
00:09:41	a couple times.
00:09:42	It's just that kind of stuff.
00:09:44	And like Molly was saying,
00:09:44	it's just
00:09:45	these nuanced topics,
00:09:47	you know,
00:09:47	they're talking about suicide
00:09:49	and some lessons
00:09:49	and things like that.
00:09:51	purity culture.
00:09:52	You see all of that stuff
00:09:52	when you look in the lessons
00:09:54	and I posted online
00:09:54	on my website that we made
00:09:58	Parents Against
00:09:58	Life was not online
00:10:00	because I believe parents
00:10:00	have the right to see that.
00:10:03	I believe they should be able
00:10:03	to review that.
00:10:04	If if this organization
00:10:06	is coming
00:10:06	into our public schools
00:10:08	and asking us
00:10:09	to sign over the custody from
00:10:09	the public schools to them,
00:10:13	they should be providing
00:10:13	the curriculum to us
00:10:15	to review or the schools
00:10:15	or the churches or anybody.
00:10:18	I'm not a lawyer.
00:10:19	I've been talking to lawyers.
00:10:20	They say I have a pretty good
00:10:22	defense for fair
00:10:22	use of a couple other things
00:10:24	to the lawyers I've talked to
00:10:25	are very confident
00:10:25	they can get a dismissal,
00:10:27	if not a whole defense
00:10:27	against this.
00:10:29	So we'll see what happens.
00:10:31	I'm not going to I'm
00:10:31	not going to settle.
00:10:33	So if they want to fight
00:10:35	and they want to drag
00:10:35	this out, I will too.
00:10:37	And it wasn't me that took
00:10:37	the material down voluntarily.
00:10:39	It was
00:10:39	taken down by the website. So
00:10:43	Molly up to me.
00:10:44	It would still be up.
00:10:46	Molly.
00:10:47	These kind of release
00:10:47	time programs
00:10:49	for religious instruction
00:10:50	are legal, have been legal
00:10:50	since 1952 with the U.S.
00:10:53	Supreme Court.
00:10:54	So what lifeways is doing
00:10:56	is legal,
00:10:56	They're exploiting that wall
00:10:59	that was meant for minority
00:10:59	children.
00:11:01	That was initially meant,
00:11:03	we need to discuss this to
00:11:03	for people
00:11:05	that couldn't afford
00:11:05	private religious education,
00:11:08	you know,
00:11:08	so this would have been
00:11:08	a public school child
00:11:10	who was maybe needed
00:11:10	to get that education
00:11:12	to get their their bar
00:11:12	mitzvah done.
00:11:14	They would go and they would
00:11:14	do this, you know what I mean?
00:11:16	And they wouldn't have to go
00:11:16	to a private Jewish school
00:11:18	to do so. They could still go
00:11:18	to their public school.
00:11:21	And that was what
00:11:21	it was originally meant for.
00:11:22	And they are using it,
00:11:25	for their own advantage
00:11:25	and to the disadvantage
00:11:27	of everyone else.
00:11:29	This is not the only,
00:11:29	Ohio is where we are,
00:11:32	but it's not the only state
00:11:32	that they're affecting.
00:11:34	they've already went through
00:11:34	and lobbied
00:11:37	life places, lobbied
00:11:37	for Indiana to pass hate.
00:11:39	House Bill 1137.
00:11:42	It's passed.
00:11:43	They went in and lobbied
00:11:43	for Jill Pence spoke
00:11:45	and lobbied for Oklahoma
00:11:45	House Bill 1425.
00:11:49	It passed.
00:11:50	So Indiana passed in March.
00:11:51	Oklahoma passed in May.
00:11:53	In Ohio, they have HB 445.
00:11:56	And, that's in process
00:11:56	right now.
00:11:58	We have not yet been able
00:11:58	to voice our opposition.
00:12:01	We're waiting for that moment
00:12:01	for that.
00:12:02	She has to do so.
00:12:04	but that would change
00:12:04	one word in the Ohio law
00:12:08	from May to Shiloh.
00:12:09	And right now,
00:12:10	the only way
00:12:10	that a school board
00:12:11	or a school district can keep
00:12:13	lifeways out is to not have
00:12:13	an arbitrary policy.
00:12:16	The only reason a school
00:12:16	would have in our tri policy,
00:12:18	traditionally,
00:12:18	would be that we, as a family
00:12:20	or a student
00:12:20	would come to them and say,
00:12:22	I need this
00:12:22	for my religious faith,
00:12:26	my learning,
00:12:27	my schooling, this,
00:12:27	and they would give them
00:12:29	where they're going,
00:12:29	etc., etc..
00:12:31	you know, but that's that's
00:12:31	not what's happening here.
00:12:33	And you know, for an MPO,
00:12:35	we're having a lot of trouble
00:12:36	understanding
00:12:36	how he's allowed to go on
00:12:38	and lobby and speak so much
00:12:38	and push so much
00:12:41	and be involved
00:12:41	in so much of our politics
00:12:44	and our state laws.
00:12:45	This is not MPO, this is not
00:12:45	how MPOs are supposed to,
00:12:48	you know, conduct themselves.
00:12:49	So that's a lot of
00:12:49	concern too.
00:12:52	I want to ask exactly
00:12:53	one more question about the,
00:12:54	response to the lawsuit
00:12:54	from likewise.
00:12:56	it has said
00:12:58	is to damage its reputation
00:12:58	that your primary goal
00:13:01	and galvanize parents
00:13:01	to oppose Lifeways
00:13:03	Academy chapters
00:13:03	in their communities.
00:13:04	Is that what you're
00:13:04	trying to do, or are you
00:13:08	just showing parents
00:13:08	what is out there?
00:13:10	Well, I, I guess it's both,
00:13:10	to be honest with you.
00:13:13	I mean, the parents
00:13:13	need to see this stuff,
00:13:15	but people need to be aware.
00:13:17	I'm not I'm not galvanizing
00:13:17	them.
00:13:19	I'm showing them what's there.
00:13:21	They're making their own
00:13:21	decisions and opinions.
00:13:23	The whole thing was, life
00:13:23	wise, has been doing this
00:13:26	behind closed doors.
00:13:27	They've been targeting
00:13:27	these rural communities
00:13:29	where they get no pushback.
00:13:31	They talk to the school boards
00:13:31	behind closed doors.
00:13:33	They send emails
00:13:33	directly to them.
00:13:35	They are so intermingled
00:13:35	with our schools.
00:13:38	And by the time anybody in
00:13:40	the community knows about it,
00:13:40	it's too late.
00:13:41	They're already already right.
00:13:43	They're already enrolling
00:13:43	children by that point.
00:13:45	And all the parents
00:13:45	are shocked
00:13:47	and they don't know
00:13:47	what to do.
00:13:48	And they're told
00:13:48	by their administrators
00:13:50	and their superintendents,
00:13:50	our hands are tied
00:13:53	lives.
00:13:54	The doors,
00:13:54	the fire City schools
00:13:56	is where I started with this.
00:13:57	And I brought the Freedom
00:13:57	from Religion Foundation,
00:14:00	and they sent a letter
00:14:00	to them.
00:14:01	And the school's lawyers
00:14:01	basically called me a liar.
00:14:04	So it's
00:14:04	definitely personal for me.
00:14:05	I had all the receipts.
00:14:07	There was a lawsuit
00:14:07	to be made at defiance,
00:14:09	and they didn't do it.
00:14:10	So it definitely
00:14:10	during personal for me.
00:14:13	They're I know the folks
00:14:14	who are supporting life
00:14:14	wise and House Bill 445
00:14:18	I said, this is,
00:14:18	you know, parents have a right
00:14:20	to be involved
00:14:20	in their child's education.
00:14:22	So I just want to close,
00:14:22	Zach,
00:14:25	don't
00:14:25	parents have a right to say
00:14:27	I want my kid to be able
00:14:27	to attend a
00:14:30	religious instruction
00:14:30	during the day?
00:14:32	Absolutely.
00:14:32	This isn't about shutting down
00:14:32	religious instruction.
00:14:35	That's not what this is about
00:14:35	at all.
00:14:37	It's about
00:14:37	they should be maintaining
00:14:38	the same standards
00:14:39	and same transparency
00:14:39	as everybody else.
00:14:41	They shouldn't
00:14:41	be disrupting the school day.
00:14:43	They shouldn't be taking away
00:14:43	from Art and Jim as a whole.
00:14:47	If parents want to choose
00:14:47	to take their kids
00:14:49	out of a class, that's fine.
00:14:51	But they are coming in
00:14:51	and having schools
00:14:53	rearrange the
00:14:53	schedule to accommodate them.
00:14:57	You know, I think it's it's
00:15:02	I think it's awful.
00:15:02	I'm going to be honest
00:15:02	with you.
00:15:04	Do the parents
00:15:04	have a right? Yes.
00:15:06	What about our rights? I'm
00:15:06	a parent.
00:15:08	Zach is a parent.
00:15:09	There's hundreds of parents
00:15:09	that have talked to us
00:15:11	that have provided
00:15:11	their testimony
00:15:13	about their lives
00:15:13	and how it's affected them
00:15:15	and their children
00:15:15	and the crying and the trauma.
00:15:18	What about our rights
00:15:18	in our country?
00:15:21	We have come so far
00:15:21	since 1952.
00:15:23	There's vouchers.
00:15:25	There are so many things
00:15:25	that you can do
00:15:26	to provide your child
00:15:26	with a religious education.
00:15:29	That is not going to encroach
00:15:30	on my child's
00:15:30	public school day.
00:15:32	There shouldn't be any peer
00:15:32	pressure.
00:15:34	There shouldn't be
00:15:35	you having to go to school
00:15:37	and worry
00:15:37	about not fitting in,
00:15:37	because you don't go
00:15:39	to a religious club
00:15:39	that the other kids go to.
00:15:41	In a lot of cases, that's
00:15:42	because your parents
00:15:42	won't allow you to.
00:15:45	What kind of
00:15:45	what kind of situation
00:15:46	are we
00:15:47	setting up in our elementary
00:15:47	schools for these kids?
00:15:49	They're already dealing
00:15:49	with racial, racial divide
00:15:52	and political divide
00:15:52	from their families.
00:15:55	And, you know, everything
00:15:55	else.
00:15:57	And we're going to add
00:15:57	this into,
00:15:58	you know,
00:15:58	it used to be that we didn't
00:16:00	discuss this sort of stuff,
00:16:01	you know, and this is why
00:16:01	it's supposed to be separate.
00:16:04	but Life Wise has influential
00:16:04	backers,
00:16:06	including Representative
00:16:06	Gary Click.
00:16:08	He's a sponsor of the bill
00:16:08	that would require schools
00:16:11	to allow release time
00:16:11	for religious instruction.
00:16:14	And as a pastor in
00:16:14	his district in western Ohio.
00:16:16	the change from May
00:16:18	to shall make sure
00:16:18	we ensure the parent's
00:16:21	rights to make choices
00:16:21	for their children.
00:16:23	So it says that the school
00:16:23	shall have a policy
00:16:26	and does not dictate
00:16:26	what the policy is.
00:16:29	But it says that you should
00:16:30	have a policy
00:16:31	for most schools, it's
00:16:31	not going to be to change.
00:16:33	75% of schools in Ohio
00:16:33	have a policy.
00:16:36	there's just a few schools
00:16:36	who, for whatever
00:16:39	their reasons are,
00:16:41	are refusing
00:16:42	to allow parents
00:16:42	to have their rights
00:16:43	to direct their children's
00:16:43	religious education.
00:16:46	And so we just want
00:16:46	to make sure
00:16:47	that parents are entitled to
00:16:50	make the choices
00:16:50	for their children.
00:16:52	So it does require that
00:16:52	students are released to go to
00:16:55	religious instruction.
00:16:57	Yes, it requires
00:16:57	that they have a policy,
00:16:59	regarding that, it doesn't say
00:16:59	what the policy is, because
00:17:04	it leaves a broad parameter
00:17:04	of choices for the schools
00:17:08	because we want it to work,
00:17:08	everywhere and every school's
00:17:12	not the same.
00:17:12	Every situation
00:17:12	is not the same.
00:17:14	All circumstances
00:17:14	are not the same.
00:17:17	But we just want to make sure
00:17:18	that parents and children
00:17:18	have the rights.
00:17:20	Now it seems like it's
00:17:20	I know it's
00:17:23	been in existence before,
00:17:23	but life wise, obviously,
00:17:26	and it's the number
00:17:26	of students
00:17:28	who have signed up for
00:17:28	that has kind of pushed
00:17:29	this forward a little bit.
00:17:31	Why shouldn't these
00:17:31	release programs be targeted
00:17:35	at things that are before
00:17:35	or after school programs?
00:17:37	Why release
00:17:37	kids during a school day
00:17:40	when there's so many things
00:17:40	teachers need to be teaching
00:17:42	and so little time to do it?
00:17:44	Well, that's
00:17:44	a very good question, Karen.
00:17:46	So there's two parts.
00:17:47	And first of all,
00:17:47	the reason is
00:17:51	because some kids are left out
00:17:52	because
00:17:52	maybe they ride the bus
00:17:54	and they don't
00:17:54	have transportation.
00:17:56	And if it's
00:17:57	before or after school,
00:17:57	those those kids are
00:17:59	eliminated from the process
00:17:59	and that opportunity.
00:18:02	So this ensures that
00:18:02	they have the time to do it.
00:18:04	And it works in every school.
00:18:06	They cannot miss core
00:18:06	curriculum or court classes.
00:18:09	The amount of time needed
00:18:09	is not a huge amount of time.
00:18:13	And many schools
00:18:13	make it work by,
00:18:15	you know,
00:18:15	using lunch in recess.
00:18:17	So not only are
00:18:17	they not missing core classes,
00:18:19	they're not missing
00:18:19	any classes,
00:18:21	and the kids
00:18:21	have a great time.
00:18:23	And then there's actually been
00:18:23	studies done that
00:18:26	report that actual school
00:18:26	attendance increases.
00:18:30	we find that in school
00:18:30	discipline, in school
00:18:33	suspensions are decreased.
00:18:35	Out of school
00:18:35	suspensions are decreased.
00:18:37	It has a very positive effect
00:18:39	on, behavior of the students.
00:18:42	it helps the students
00:18:42	self-image
00:18:43	and their self-worth.
00:18:45	It's just really a net win win
00:18:46	all the way around,
00:18:46	and it does not interfere.
00:18:49	so many administrators
00:18:49	and many school
00:18:52	teachers have implemented
00:18:52	this and used this,
00:18:55	without any incident
00:18:55	or any problem.
00:18:58	But,
00:18:58	there are people out there
00:18:59	who really, I think
00:18:59	just for a minute reasons,
00:19:02	they keep creating
00:19:02	all these boogeymen and say,
00:19:04	well, this will happen
00:19:04	and that will happen.
00:19:06	But really, that's never been
00:19:06	proven to be the case.
00:19:10	The things that you're citing
00:19:10	there are those studies
00:19:13	specifically on the life wise
00:19:13	didn't does those statistics
00:19:17	and those things come from
00:19:17	life wise itself,
00:19:19	or are these
00:19:19	all sorts of release programs
00:19:22	that have been in existence
00:19:22	for a while?
00:19:23	Well, life
00:19:23	wise commissioned the study.
00:19:25	and so it
00:19:25	does this very specifically,
00:19:28	I believe, with life wise,
00:19:29	but they're really the largest
00:19:29	players in the field.
00:19:32	You know,
00:19:32	they saw that this was,
00:19:32	something that was available.
00:19:35	They just started
00:19:35	on a small scale
00:19:37	and they said, well,
00:19:38	maybe we can be in 25 schools
00:19:38	by 2025.
00:19:41	And I think, you know,
00:19:41	they're already and three
00:19:43	that aim somewhere
00:19:43	between 3 and 500 schools.
00:19:46	And that doesn't happen unless
00:19:46	you're doing things right.
00:19:49	they are very successful.
00:19:52	schools have found that
00:19:52	it's done very efficiently.
00:19:55	The teachers are well trained,
00:19:55	well prepared.
00:19:58	They have an efficient system
00:20:00	to get the kids
00:20:00	where they're going
00:20:01	to get them back
00:20:01	to cause a minimal amount
00:20:03	of interference
00:20:03	in the schools.
00:20:05	If they weren't
00:20:05	doing their job
00:20:07	right, it wouldn't be popular.
00:20:09	Now, wife wise is suing a
00:20:12	Indiana man who got a hold
00:20:12	of the curriculum
00:20:16	and published it
00:20:16	on his website.
00:20:19	He's take it's been taken down
00:20:19	now, but I want to ask you
00:20:23	the wife on his website lists
00:20:23	sample curriculum,
00:20:26	but you can't access
00:20:26	the full curriculum.
00:20:28	Now, the Ohio
00:20:28	Department of Education
00:20:30	and Workforce is website notes
00:20:30	that Ohio law is parents
00:20:33	and guardians,
00:20:34	the right to review curriculum
00:20:34	that's being taught
00:20:36	in their kids schools.
00:20:38	So I know life wise does
00:20:38	a lot of things well.
00:20:41	There's all the things off
00:20:41	school property,
00:20:43	but shouldn't parents
00:20:45	have the right to look at
00:20:45	what life wise
00:20:48	is doing their full curriculum
00:20:49	and look it over
00:20:49	and judge for themselves?
00:20:52	Well,
00:20:52	I think you're really talking
00:20:53	about two separate issues.
00:20:55	of course, I 100%
00:20:55	believe in parents rights.
00:20:58	And I think parents can
00:20:59	make that request, to life
00:20:59	wise into the officials.
00:21:03	that's not what happened
00:21:03	here, though.
00:21:04	This is somebody who,
00:21:05	for bigoted reasons, went
00:21:05	and stole something.
00:21:08	And it really it copyright
00:21:08	laws exist for a reason.
00:21:12	And just because,
00:21:12	you know, he's a vigilante and
00:21:15	and really,
00:21:15	it's just based on bigotry.
00:21:17	And so he goes
00:21:17	and steals something
00:21:18	and puts it out there.
00:21:19	You know,
00:21:19	you can't go steal a CD or CD.
00:21:22	That's just how old I am.
00:21:23	DVD or VHS, you know,
00:21:27	you can't just go steal other
00:21:29	people's intellectual property
00:21:29	and post it.
00:21:32	That that's common sense.
00:21:33	Everyone knows that,
00:21:35	and he's just doing that
00:21:35	to try to harm, them.
00:21:39	As far as I know,
00:21:40	I really don't know much more
00:21:40	than, you know,
00:21:42	I just what I've read about it
00:21:42	in the papers, but it makes
00:21:46	no sense for him to claim
00:21:46	to be doing something right.
00:21:49	You know,
00:21:49	he's trying to be
00:21:50	a Robin Hood, but
00:21:50	he's just acting like a hood.
00:21:54	I know that the concern
00:21:54	about the current.
00:21:57	I know the concern
00:21:57	about the curriculum
00:21:59	not being able to be
00:22:00	read is one of the things
00:22:00	that's been brought up.
00:22:02	But there's another thing
00:22:03	that some
00:22:04	critics have brought up
00:22:05	is that the people who work
00:22:05	with life wise have not gone
00:22:08	through background checks.
00:22:10	And I'm wondering,
00:22:10	you've probably been in touch
00:22:12	with the folks with life wise.
00:22:12	Is that the case?
00:22:14	Are these teachers
00:22:14	and the drivers of vehicles
00:22:18	that take the kids
00:22:18	back and forth?
00:22:19	Are they fully vetted
00:22:19	and background checked?
00:22:23	So there's two answers
00:22:23	to that.
00:22:24	Number one, yes they are.
00:22:26	They do run a background
00:22:26	check on everyone
00:22:28	that is a part
00:22:28	of their program.
00:22:30	But the second answer to that
00:22:32	is that, remember, schools
00:22:32	get to create the policy
00:22:35	and a school
00:22:35	can add that to the policy.
00:22:38	There's no nothing
00:22:38	that would stop a school
00:22:40	from saying
00:22:40	that's part of their policy.
00:22:43	And you're
00:22:43	also a co-sponsor of a bill
00:22:44	that would allow schools
00:22:44	to have chaplains.
00:22:47	And you have said that this
00:22:47	what you've got here of the,
00:22:50	release policy is open to
00:22:50	opportunities of all faiths.
00:22:55	But there are certainly people
00:22:55	that look at
00:22:58	the chaplains idea,
00:23:00	some of the other proposals,
00:23:00	and think that the legislature
00:23:03	is inviting the church,
00:23:04	especially the Christian
00:23:04	church, in the public schools
00:23:07	where kids of all faiths
00:23:07	and even no faith
00:23:10	are there
00:23:10	to get their education.
00:23:12	How do you respond to that?
00:23:14	I don't know.
00:23:14	So and I think a lot of people
00:23:16	want to mischaracterize
00:23:16	things.
00:23:17	So, so and let me just speak
00:23:17	from experience.
00:23:20	I have been a chaplain.
00:23:21	I've been a law enforcement
00:23:21	chaplain.
00:23:22	I did that for a decade.
00:23:24	And sometimes
00:23:24	people just need
00:23:26	somebody who's going to sit
00:23:26	and listen to them
00:23:28	and talk with them,
00:23:29	you know? And
00:23:30	and I was a hospice chaplain
00:23:30	for a few years as well.
00:23:34	And as a hospice chaplain,
00:23:35	I didn't say, well,
00:23:35	what is your religion?
00:23:37	You know,
00:23:37	I can't pray with you
00:23:39	if you're not my religion or
00:23:39	and I never force my religion
00:23:43	on anyone.
00:23:44	Sometimes it's really in
00:23:44	certain times somebody, it's
00:23:47	really like a mentor.
00:23:49	And you're there for someone
00:23:49	and you can talk
00:23:52	just some basic common
00:23:52	sense to them.
00:23:54	You're not necessarily
00:23:54	a mental health professional,
00:23:58	but that's not always
00:23:58	what people want
00:23:59	or always what people need.
00:23:59	And they need somebody.
00:24:01	And maybe they just
00:24:03	so many times
00:24:03	people just said, hey,
00:24:04	could you just pray with me?
00:24:06	And to be able
00:24:06	to offer up a prayer
00:24:08	or to give some practical
00:24:08	wisdom, some practical advice,
00:24:11	some character
00:24:11	building instruction,
00:24:14	and people read too much
00:24:14	into this.
00:24:17	That's not there.
00:24:20	And I had something.
00:24:21	I had an atheist, one time
00:24:21	when I was a hospice chaplain,
00:24:25	his wife was in the program,
00:24:25	and I would go
00:24:29	and I would visit and
00:24:29	we talked in different things.
00:24:32	And the only thing is I
00:24:34	we kind of both laughed
00:24:34	because I had to tell him.
00:24:36	I said, you're not an atheist.
00:24:36	He says, I'm not.
00:24:38	I said, no.
00:24:38	He said, well, what am I?
00:24:39	I said, you're an agnostic
00:24:41	because he didn't know
00:24:41	the difference between
00:24:42	an agnostic and an atheist,
00:24:42	and which he says,
00:24:45	I don't think you can know,
00:24:45	which is that's agnostic.
00:24:47	An atheist says, definitely
00:24:47	there is no God.
00:24:50	And I'm probably getting too
00:24:50	detailed for you here.
00:24:53	But,
00:24:54	but his wife got better
00:24:54	for a little while,
00:24:56	and she was no longer
00:24:56	in hospice,
00:24:58	and so I,
00:24:58	I wasn't visiting anymore.
00:25:01	And she did
00:25:01	come back into hospice.
00:25:03	He says, oh, I couldn't
00:25:03	wait to you came back
00:25:05	and we were
00:25:05	I didn't push my faith on him.
00:25:07	I'd I'd ask you any answer,
00:25:07	any questions he had.
00:25:11	And we just had good
00:25:11	conversations
00:25:12	and I'd pray for him
00:25:12	and his wife and
00:25:14	and they were happy
00:25:15	because you don't
00:25:15	have to force anything
00:25:20	on someone
00:25:20	to be an effective chaplain.
00:25:23	We mean a chaplain.
00:25:24	Ministers to everyone.
00:25:26	and you meet people
00:25:26	where they are.
00:25:28	Click says
00:25:28	he thinks there's a place
00:25:30	for religion
00:25:30	in public schools
00:25:30	and everywhere
00:25:32	because quoting him,
00:25:34	in our country,
00:25:35	we have the freedom
00:25:36	of religion,
00:25:36	not the freedom from religion.
00:25:39	And that's it for this week
00:25:39	for my colleagues
00:25:40	at the Statehouse News
00:25:40	Bureau of Ohio
00:25:42	Public Radio and Television.
00:25:42	Thanks for watching.
00:25:44	Please check out our website
00:25:44	at State News Talk
00:25:46	or find us online by searching
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Note : Transcripts are compiled from uncorrected captions