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00:00:39Lawmakers
00:00:39leave their late spring break
00:00:41to come back
00:00:41to the statehouse,
00:00:42but Biden on the ballot
00:00:44and ban foreign money
00:00:44in ballot campaigns.
00:00:47A look back at the first
00:00:47special session in 20 years.
00:00:49This weekend,
00:00:49the state of Ohio.
00:01:10Welcome to the state of Ohio.
00:01:12I'm Karen Kasler.
00:01:13For the 28th time
00:01:13since 1935, state lawmakers.
00:01:16Were called back to.
00:01:17Columbus by the governor for
00:01:17a special legislative session.
00:01:20This time, governor Mike
00:01:21DeWine wanted action on a bill
00:01:21to change the state's 90 day
00:01:24presidential certification
00:01:24deadline
00:01:26to ensure President
00:01:26Biden is on the ballot
00:01:29and on a ban
00:01:30on foreign contributions
00:01:30and ballot issue
00:01:32campaigns.
00:01:33And legislators
00:01:33took a convoluted
00:01:35path to make that happen.
00:01:37It started Tuesday with House
00:01:37Republicans proposing
00:01:39two bills numbered House bills
00:01:39one and two.
00:01:42Republican senators
00:01:42added those two subjects
00:01:45to a House bill on numbering
00:01:45ballot issues.
00:01:47They came over after unanimous
00:01:47House approval in May.
00:01:51That sparked a quarrel
00:01:51among Republicans over
00:01:53whether existing legislation
00:01:54could be acted upon
00:01:54in the special session,
00:01:57or whether new legislation
00:01:57had to be drafted.
00:01:59Senate Democrats
00:01:59voted against that bill
00:02:02and announced
00:02:02the Democratic
00:02:02National Committee
00:02:04would convene
00:02:04a virtual roll call,
00:02:06similar to what was done
00:02:06in 2020 to nominate Biden.
00:02:09No date was set for that,
00:02:10but the DNC said
00:02:10it would happen
00:02:12before the state
00:02:12deadline of August 7th,
00:02:15making a temporary fix to the
00:02:15Biden ballot issue moot.
00:02:18Ohio's seven Senate
00:02:18Democrats also proposed bills
00:02:21to temporarily and permanently
00:02:21change that 90 day deadline,
00:02:25after closed door negotiations
00:02:25on which bills
00:02:28would move forward.
00:02:29The House convened on Thursday
00:02:29and passed the foreign
00:02:32money ban as House
00:02:32Bill one along party lines.
00:02:35They also approved the Biden
00:02:35ballot fix,
00:02:37but more than 30 Republicans
00:02:37voted against that.
00:02:40Both House Speaker Jason
00:02:40Stephens and Senate President
00:02:43Matt Huffman had warned
00:02:44that some Republicans
00:02:44would vote
00:02:46against a standalone bill
00:02:46to put Biden on the ballot,
00:02:49or a foreign money ban that
00:02:49included a Biden ballot fix,
00:02:53after the DNC announced
00:02:53the Biden nomination via
00:02:56virtual roll call.
00:02:57Most of the focus
00:02:57of the special session
00:02:59turned to the ban
00:02:59on contributions
00:03:01by foreign nationals
00:03:01to ballot issue campaigns.
00:03:04Republicans said
00:03:05that was pending
00:03:05and discussed for a while,
00:03:07and that it was critical to
00:03:07pass it as soon as possible.
00:03:10Democrats said no one wants
00:03:10foreign money in elections,
00:03:14but this proposal was designed
00:03:15to hinder citizen
00:03:15initiated campaigns
00:03:18like the amendment to overhaul
00:03:18the redistricting process,
00:03:20which is likely to come before
00:03:20voters this fall.
00:03:23in campaign
00:03:23I talked to two experts
00:03:25finance who both spoke
00:03:25out on the foreign money ban.
00:03:28First, Republican former
00:03:28Secretary of State
00:03:30Ken Blackwell.
00:03:32The rush has been on to pass
00:03:32this ban on
00:03:34foreign contributions,
00:03:34invalid issue campaigns.
00:03:38I mean, because
00:03:38of the redistricting amendment
00:03:39that's likely to come on
00:03:39the ballot this fall. Right.
00:03:41I mean, I keep hearing
00:03:41lawmakers say
00:03:43has been pending for a while.
00:03:43This is critical.
00:03:45But the rush is on because of
00:03:45that ballot issue this fall.
00:03:48Right.
00:03:50Well, no,
00:03:50I think the rushes on
00:03:52because there's been
00:03:52a heightened attention to,
00:03:56the election integrity
00:03:56on, on many fronts.
00:03:59And while foreign money in
00:04:03our elections as it relates to
00:04:03candidates
00:04:05has been addressed,
00:04:05we addressed it in 2004.
00:04:10we, in fact, left a loophole.
00:04:12And that is, you know,
00:04:12foreign dollars can influence,
00:04:16a referendum.
00:04:17And and so I think this is
00:04:17part of a cleanup effort
00:04:21that, has been ongoing
00:04:21now for,
00:04:25a number of months,
00:04:25if not years.
00:04:28and I really think that it's
00:04:31been interesting that
00:04:31the opportunity to fix this,
00:04:35when the legislature
00:04:35was out of session came about,
00:04:40with an effort
00:04:40to make sure that,
00:04:43Joe Biden, President
00:04:43Biden is on the agenda,
00:04:46excuse me,
00:04:46on the ballot in in November.
00:04:50Why not just go ahead and ban
00:04:50all dark money
00:04:53from all sources?
00:04:54I mean, wouldn't
00:04:55that solve the problem
00:04:55and address
00:04:57some of the concerns
00:04:57that came out
00:04:58following the House Bill
00:04:58six nuclear
00:04:59power plant bailout scandal?
00:05:00Why not just had a ban
00:05:00on dark money from anybody?
00:05:04Well, look, the fact
00:05:04if there's money that that's
00:05:08transparently exchanged,
00:05:11I think there's nothing wrong
00:05:11with with with sunshine.
00:05:16but the reality is that
00:05:17we have an established body
00:05:17of law that allows folks
00:05:20to speak into efforts
00:05:20by American citizens.
00:05:26and in this case, Ohioans,
00:05:26that,
00:05:30can can protect the,
00:05:33the identity of the givers.
00:05:35as long as we know
00:05:35that the givers are American
00:05:38and those dollars are
00:05:40coming from American sources,
00:05:40I think that's
00:05:42that's the bottom line.
00:05:44I would have no, problem,
00:05:47with, greater transparency.
00:05:50But the fact of the matter is,
00:05:50is that some of the,
00:05:53the, best uses of of so-called
00:05:53dark money,
00:05:58has come, from both sides
00:05:58of the aisle.
00:06:01On that note,
00:06:03there was money that came from
00:06:03Catholic interests.
00:06:05But for issue one,
00:06:05the abortion
00:06:07access amendment last fall.
00:06:08Is that a problem?
00:06:09Because couldn't
00:06:09some of that money
00:06:11be traced back to the Vatican?
00:06:13Well, I don't think so.
00:06:14I, I think the philosophy,
00:06:17can be traced back to the,
00:06:17to the, to the Vatican.
00:06:20But I don't think
00:06:20that the actual dollars
00:06:24were out of,
00:06:26through,
00:06:28a variety of sources,
00:06:28but originated in the Vatican.
00:06:33Believe me, there are enough
00:06:33Catholic interest
00:06:36in the United States
00:06:36with money,
00:06:39to to meet the need.
00:06:41Democrats have said that
00:06:41no one wants foreign money
00:06:44and ballot issues.
00:06:45And a Federal Election
00:06:45Commission opinion in 2021
00:06:47says that the law that bans
00:06:49foreign contributions
00:06:49to candidates
00:06:51also extends to ballot
00:06:51issue campaigns as well.
00:06:54They say that this foreign
00:06:54money ban is just a way to sow
00:06:57fear and confusion around
00:06:58ballot issue campaigns,
00:06:58and make it so that people
00:07:00don't want to get involved in
00:07:00them. Are you?
00:07:03I don't.
00:07:04I don't I don't think so.
00:07:06I, I've talked with lawyers,
00:07:10from across the country
00:07:10on both sides of the aisle
00:07:13who who will tell you that
00:07:15there is still a loophole
00:07:15in Ohio law, that allows for,
00:07:21that money, to be to be used
00:07:21in referendum.
00:07:25And, and we know that
00:07:25referenda,
00:07:28now drives a lot of policy,
00:07:28at the state level.
00:07:32So, no, I, I think, this is,
00:07:32you know,
00:07:37it would be flip on this
00:07:37to this.
00:07:40There's something that I call,
00:07:43constructive redundancy.
00:07:45so why not just take,
00:07:48you know, this
00:07:48as a constructive redundancy?
00:07:52I, I don't
00:07:52I don't think anyone,
00:07:54wants to further,
00:07:56the erosion of national
00:07:56and state sovereignty.
00:08:01and I think that this is also
00:08:03an effort to make sure that
00:08:03we strengthen, the integrity
00:08:08of the concept of citizenship,
00:08:08in our country.
00:08:12Look, I've.
00:08:12I've crisscrossed the globe.
00:08:14I was, chairman and cochairman
00:08:14of a bipartisan effort.
00:08:20funded by
00:08:21the agency for
00:08:21International Development. And
00:08:25we've done these bipartisan
00:08:25efforts, in elections.
00:08:28I can tell you across
00:08:28the globe, I can tell you
00:08:31there's not one country
00:08:31that I know that would be very
00:08:36happy to have the intrusion
00:08:36of foreign dollars.
00:08:40and their elections
00:08:40in any shape, form or fashion.
00:08:44Republicans in the group
00:08:44that you've been working with
00:08:46on this,
00:08:46the Honest Elections project,
00:08:48they've noted that the
00:08:48concerns about the 1630 fund,
00:08:51which is a progressive, dark
00:08:52money group
00:08:52that's gotten a quarter of $1
00:08:54billion in donations
00:08:54from a Swiss billionaire.
00:08:56The 1630 fund
00:08:56donated to the campaign
00:08:58to pass issue one last fall,
00:09:00but it also donated
00:09:00to a campaign to pass a drug
00:09:04and criminal justice
00:09:04initiative in Ohio in 2018.
00:09:07Now that one did not pass.
00:09:09So does the does foreign money
00:09:11really play a significant role
00:09:11in getting ballot issues
00:09:14passed,
00:09:14or is that really all on
00:09:16the voters of Ohio to decide?
00:09:18No, I think, in our
00:09:18in our open society,
00:09:22information is an important
00:09:22and the slant
00:09:27of that information
00:09:28and the motivation
00:09:28of who is advancing that,
00:09:32that,
00:09:34policy initiative,
00:09:34it should be very transparent.
00:09:37So I, I think this is
00:09:37consistent with transparency.
00:09:40That is not to say
00:09:40everybody who would
00:09:40who would try to excuse for,
00:09:45an election or a referendum,
00:09:45has been successful.
00:09:49but, you know, what we want is
00:09:49a situation where we do away
00:09:53with this
00:09:53whole notion of rules for the
00:09:53for the but not for me.
00:09:57We we actually want
00:09:57the application of rules
00:10:00across the board
00:10:00on both sides of the aisle.
00:10:02And that means that
00:10:02if there's wrongdoing
00:10:05on the Republican side of
00:10:05the aisle, you smack the hand.
00:10:08And and same for the,
00:10:08Democratic side of the aisle.
00:10:12Now, this bill does invest
00:10:12a lot of power in the attorney
00:10:14General's office
00:10:14to go after these bad actors.
00:10:18Right now, the attorney
00:10:18general is a Republican.
00:10:20The attorney general may be
00:10:20a Democrat at some point.
00:10:22and these are Partizan
00:10:22elected positions.
00:10:24Attorney general,
00:10:26are you concerned at all
00:10:26about giving that much power
00:10:28to somebody
00:10:29who is a Partizan elected
00:10:29official,
00:10:30no matter
00:10:30which party he or she is from?
00:10:34absolutely not.
00:10:35It's very hard to take
00:10:35politics out of politics.
00:10:39And you're absolutely right.
00:10:41our attorney general is run
00:10:41with a party affiliation.
00:10:46but I think that,
00:10:46for the most part,
00:10:48we've been lucky to have folks
00:10:48who have integrity.
00:10:50and they and
00:10:52and they really do believe
00:10:52that justice is blind.
00:10:55here's the reality.
00:10:56I think you have to invest
00:10:56in the attorney general,
00:10:58because
00:10:58when there's wrongdoing,
00:11:01you have to be able to deal
00:11:01with with the problem
00:11:04very, very quickly
00:11:04and in a very muscular way.
00:11:08and, and if you, if you bring,
00:11:08and, and you're bogged down
00:11:13in, the,
00:11:13you know, back and forth,
00:11:17political argument, the,
00:11:17the wrongdoing is already done
00:11:21and that's a problem.
00:11:22So, you know, I,
00:11:22I would invest this sort
00:11:25of, authority and muscularity.
00:11:28And the attorney general,
00:11:28regardless
00:11:30of who
00:11:30the attorney general is.
00:11:32this is this is consistent
00:11:32with the rule of law.
00:11:35And I think most attorney
00:11:35generals that we've had,
00:11:38or, folks
00:11:38who abide by, both Democrat
00:11:41and Republican, who ultimately
00:11:41abide by the rule of law.
00:11:46I want to ask you, as a former
00:11:46secretary of state,
00:11:48is changing a law
00:11:48during an election year,
00:11:51especially
00:11:51presidential election year,
00:11:52just a few months
00:11:52before a potential ballot
00:11:55issue could be before voters.
00:11:56Is that going to be a problem?
00:11:58I mean, hasn't Ohio had a
00:11:58tradition of kind of avoiding
00:12:01making big election
00:12:01law changes
00:12:03during a presidential election
00:12:03year?
00:12:05Well, I think
00:12:06as we as we're moving forward
00:12:08on this,
00:12:08particularly on the issue
00:12:10that we're talking about now,
00:12:10foreign money,
00:12:12no, it's not a problem.
00:12:14We need to make sure, that the
00:12:14the water isn't poisoned.
00:12:18And the way to do
00:12:18that is to make sure
00:12:20that the poison doesn't
00:12:20get in the water,
00:12:23whenever.
00:12:24So I think
00:12:24I think that's that's,
00:12:27this is a good time to
00:12:29make sure that there's
00:12:29not undue foreign influence.
00:12:32Protect
00:12:32our national sovereignty.
00:12:34Protect,
00:12:36the, the value of citizenship,
00:12:40in the state of Ohio
00:12:40and the United States.
00:12:42And I would just say, again,
00:12:42as I crisscross the globe
00:12:45during the elections,
00:12:45I don't know
00:12:47of any other country
00:12:47of the not 193 countries
00:12:53in the United Nations
00:12:53that openly invite foreign,
00:12:57manipulation and, and
00:12:57influence in their elections.
00:13:02And so I ask you again, as
00:13:02a former secretary of state,
00:13:04you've spoken out on
00:13:04going ahead with the proposal
00:13:08that would get,
00:13:09President Joe Biden onto
00:13:09the Ohio ballot, especially
00:13:12since there have been a
00:13:12Supreme Court fight to ensure
00:13:14Trump was on the ballot
00:13:14former President
00:13:16after he had been removed
00:13:16by Colorado.
00:13:18Now, for a totally different
00:13:18reason.
00:13:20Ohio Secretary of State
00:13:20Frank Larose
00:13:22signed on to a brief
00:13:22in that Colorado
00:13:24case, saying the removal
00:13:25of a candidate
00:13:25from the ballot in one state
00:13:27not only affects
00:13:27that state's election,
00:13:29but also has far reaching
00:13:29ramifications in other states.
00:13:32It artificially alters
00:13:32momentum
00:13:33in relation to primaries
00:13:35and caucuses, therefore
00:13:35affecting the entire process.
00:13:37So should Frank Rose
00:13:39have been fighting harder
00:13:39to get Biden onto the ballot?
00:13:44I think in the
00:13:44final analysis,
00:13:44Frank knew that,
00:13:48there has been fair
00:13:48play in the state of Ohio
00:13:51and that, ultimately,
00:13:55Joe Biden
00:13:55is going to be on the ballot.
00:13:57And in Ohio, I just think that
00:13:57we've just been served up
00:14:01with a brilliant opportunity
00:14:01to fix, a loophole
00:14:05in our election policy,
00:14:05and make sure that,
00:14:09the integrity
00:14:10of the process is protected
00:14:10against foreign interests.
00:14:14Is the 90 day deadline
00:14:15for presidential candidate
00:14:15certification too long?
00:14:18Would you like to see it
00:14:18shortened permanently?
00:14:20No. I would like to see, us
00:14:20to keep it as it is,
00:14:24but also keep the sense
00:14:24of fair play and accommodation
00:14:28that we've been able to show,
00:14:30regardless
00:14:30of who the candidate is.
00:14:32It's falling that a few days,
00:14:32after that 90, that,
00:14:3590 day demo
00:14:37that this is the, the beauty
00:14:37of our system is that we are,
00:14:42a two
00:14:42party system and, and is
00:14:42and is complicated
00:14:46and as cantankerous
00:14:46as it gets, I think
00:14:49it's still the best, system
00:14:49in all of the world.
00:14:52I also sat down
00:14:52with Catherine Tercer,
00:14:54the executive
00:14:54director of Common Cause Ohio,
00:14:56which is part of the coalition
00:14:56that's
00:14:58working to put the citizens,
00:14:58not politicians,
00:15:00redistricting amendment
00:15:00before voters
00:15:03for in contributions
00:15:03are already illegal.
00:15:05That's been stated several
00:15:05times in Ohio elections.
00:15:07Commission opinion in 2021
00:15:07says the law that bans
00:15:11contributions, foreign
00:15:12contributions to candidates
00:15:13extends to ballot
00:15:13issue campaigns as well.
00:15:16Everyone seems to agree
00:15:17that foreign money
00:15:17in elections is bad,
00:15:20so why not just go ahead and
00:15:20articulate it into state law?
00:15:24former Secretary of State
00:15:24Ken Blackwell calls it
00:15:26constructive redundancy.
00:15:28Why not just do that?
00:15:29No one is out there saying,
00:15:30oh, I definitely want foreign
00:15:30money in Ohio elections.
00:15:35No one wants that.
00:15:36In fact, there are clear
00:15:36prohibit actions in law.
00:15:39There's a prohibition from
00:15:39the Ohio Elections Commission.
00:15:43We all understand that
00:15:43we're not supposed to do that.
00:15:45And there's really
00:15:45nothing wrong
00:15:47with putting a prohibition
00:15:47directly in Ohio law.
00:15:51The problem is that
00:15:51the Ohio House coupled it,
00:15:57you know, with an enforcement
00:15:57mechanism
00:16:00that is problematic and could
00:16:00easily become politicized.
00:16:05Now, polls have shown,
00:16:06and we
00:16:06keep hearing about this,
00:16:07that people say
00:16:07they don't want
00:16:09foreign interference
00:16:09in elections,
00:16:11whether it involves
00:16:11former President Trump
00:16:13or anybody else.
00:16:14Is there the danger that those
00:16:16who oppose this
00:16:16are going to be viewed as,
00:16:19hey, you support foreign money
00:16:19and foreign interference
00:16:22in elections?
00:16:23I think people
00:16:23might be confused by that,
00:16:25but I hope that I have been
00:16:25very clear
00:16:28that what we're worried about
00:16:28is abuse of power,
00:16:32that we're concerned
00:16:33that all sorts of nonprofits
00:16:33might be investigated.
00:16:37We're concerned about,
00:16:39you know, opening the door
00:16:39to an abuse of power.
00:16:43And this is
00:16:44especially problematic
00:16:45because if we actually
00:16:45had greater transparency,
00:16:48if we could in fact
00:16:48follow the money, then
00:16:52you wouldn't need a deep dive
00:16:52and a deep investigation.
00:16:56So a better approach
00:16:56would have been
00:16:58to actually create
00:16:59greater transparency
00:17:00so that all of us could
00:17:00actually follow the money.
00:17:03This, you know, reduces
00:17:04corruption,
00:17:04allows us to consider,
00:17:07you know,
00:17:07the source of information
00:17:09and then leave
00:17:09the investigation
00:17:12and end the referral
00:17:12to the prosecutor
00:17:15to the Ohio Elections
00:17:15Commission,
00:17:16which has Republicans,
00:17:16Democrats and independents.
00:17:20Let's talk
00:17:20a little bit about that
00:17:21enforcement mechanism here.
00:17:23The bill would move
00:17:23enforcement authority
00:17:25over to the attorney
00:17:25General's office.
00:17:26So the argument has been that
00:17:26they've got the the teeth
00:17:31to make this happen,
00:17:31that the Ohio Elections
00:17:33Commission
00:17:33is essentially a paper tiger
00:17:35and can take a long time
00:17:36to take action
00:17:36if it ever even happens,
00:17:38whereas the attorney general
00:17:38has more,
00:17:41more power to go ahead
00:17:41and do these things.
00:17:43Why not give that power
00:17:43to that office?
00:17:46So I would not disagree
00:17:46with the sponsor.
00:17:48You know,
00:17:48at the end of the day,
00:17:50the Ohio Elections
00:17:50Commission is a bit toothless.
00:17:54Now, what we could do is we
00:17:54could give the Ohio Elections
00:17:58Commission a better budget.
00:17:59We could give them
00:17:59subpoena power,
00:18:02that there's no real reason
00:18:02to actually involve
00:18:06the attorney general in this.
00:18:08But the attorney general
00:18:08would have the the power
00:18:11to make it happen
00:18:12arguably more quickly
00:18:14than some of these
00:18:14other entities would.
00:18:15And then there's
00:18:16also the question
00:18:16about county prosecutors
00:18:18and whether they
00:18:19have the bandwidth
00:18:19to do this kind of stuff.
00:18:21So one of the things that
00:18:21we could be thinking about
00:18:23when we're thinking about
00:18:23bandwidth is actually ensuring
00:18:26that there's
00:18:26the resources to do this.
00:18:29I think that's really
00:18:29what that comes down to. Now.
00:18:31You don't need really robust,
00:18:35resources
00:18:35if you actually have greater
00:18:38transparency
00:18:38in the first place.
00:18:39You know,
00:18:39when we have a better ability
00:18:42to follow the money,
00:18:42meaning all voters,
00:18:44then we can identify early on.
00:18:46Hey, something
00:18:46looks a little hinky here.
00:18:49And then hand it
00:18:49over to an investigator
00:18:52to do a little bit
00:18:52more research.
00:18:53But if we have a system
00:18:55that is very closed,
00:18:55very dark,
00:18:57we can't exactly figure out
00:18:57what's going on.
00:18:59Yeah.
00:18:59Well, then you do need either
00:18:59the attorney general
00:19:02or the FBI to actually do
00:19:02an investigation.
00:19:06So you know how crowdsourcing
00:19:06works.
00:19:10In many ways.
00:19:11We get at a problem,
00:19:11we're able
00:19:13to identify some solutions,
00:19:13think about Wikipedia,
00:19:16but we also need professionals
00:19:16to seal the deal.
00:19:19At the end of the day.
00:19:21And so why not create
00:19:21greater transparency
00:19:23so that we can actually
00:19:23understand what's happening,
00:19:26you know, shine
00:19:26a light on dark money.
00:19:28And then we actually have
00:19:28the Ohio Elections Commission
00:19:31that can do an investigation
00:19:31and hand it over
00:19:34to a prosecutor.
00:19:35It would be so much simpler,
00:19:35but then they would actually
00:19:39have to address dark money
00:19:39and all elections.
00:19:43And so far, even though
00:19:43it's been four years
00:19:47since householder was arrested
00:19:47and talking about former
00:19:50speaker of the House,
00:19:52who also had a had a name that
00:19:52works for this householder,
00:19:58since his arrest.
00:19:59And really,
00:19:59we all became very, very aware
00:20:02of the House bill
00:20:02six scheme. So.
00:20:08Well,
00:20:08let's let's talk a little bit
00:20:10about the dark money issues,
00:20:10because you have,
00:20:12for a very long time
00:20:12talked about your concerns
00:20:14about dark money, all sources
00:20:14of dark money and, more.
00:20:18Transparency throughout.
00:20:20The whole political process.
00:20:21But there's there's no effort
00:20:21actively to address
00:20:25dark money.
00:20:26And the argument could be
00:20:26that it's because there are
00:20:29there's no incentive to do it.
00:20:30Democrats and Republicans
00:20:30both use dark money
00:20:33and both benefit
00:20:33from the use of dark money.
00:20:35So what is true
00:20:35is the longer we operate in
00:20:38a dark money system, the more
00:20:38it just becomes what we do.
00:20:42And what we do know
00:20:42is that, you know, dark money,
00:20:45secret money, fosters
00:20:45corruption.
00:20:49It's, you know,
00:20:50let's face it,
00:20:51you know, no secret
00:20:51is necessarily problematic.
00:20:54But if you create a space
00:20:54where nobody actually knows
00:20:57what's going
00:20:58on, sometimes it's pretty hard
00:20:58to be well-behaved.
00:21:02And so, you know,
00:21:02when I think
00:21:02about the importance
00:21:04of really shining a light,
00:21:04allowing us to follow
00:21:07the money, we can consider
00:21:07the source of a contribution.
00:21:10Like when they do a political
00:21:10ad, we can say, oh, well,
00:21:15they're saying that because
00:21:15they want the specific thing,
00:21:18you know,
00:21:18imagine how different
00:21:19it would have been
00:21:19if those generation now
00:21:21ads had said first energy
00:21:21paid for by First Energy,
00:21:26the, dark money in
00:21:28the 1630 fund, which is this
00:21:28progressive group,
00:21:32that donated to help pass
00:21:32issue one last fall,
00:21:35or at least promoted
00:21:35passing issue one last fall.
00:21:37The abortion access amendment.
00:21:39They also
00:21:40that's where the Swiss
00:21:40billionaire as part of this
00:21:43and some of the things that
00:21:43Republicans have talked about,
00:21:45they also donated
00:21:45to a campaign in 2018
00:21:47to pass
00:21:47a constitutional amendment
00:21:49that would have changed,
00:21:49criminal justice and drug
00:21:53related sentencing
00:21:53and that sort of thing.
00:21:54That one didn't pass.
00:21:56And so,
00:21:57I mean, isn't
00:21:57this really up to Ohio voters,
00:21:57that really dark money
00:22:01or money from any other source
00:22:01really have an impact
00:22:04on what voters decide?
00:22:05Isn't it really up to them?
00:22:07So everything really does
00:22:07come down to the voters.
00:22:10But we do know that money
00:22:10plays an outsized role,
00:22:14and that's because, you know,
00:22:14all the political ads,
00:22:17they can shape
00:22:17the conversation.
00:22:19They can shape
00:22:19how we think about things.
00:22:22They can,
00:22:23send us in one direction
00:22:23and not asking
00:22:25appropriate questions.
00:22:27And so when you think about,
00:22:27kind of where we get our news
00:22:31now, you know,
00:22:31I'd like to think
00:22:31that everyone is tuning in
00:22:33to watch this program
00:22:33right now,
00:22:35but a lot of people
00:22:35are getting their information,
00:22:37you know,
00:22:37just on social media.
00:22:39And so if they're really
00:22:39targeted social media ads,
00:22:43sometimes people don't leave
00:22:43that kind of rabbit hole
00:22:46to go and get more information
00:22:46about candidates.
00:22:50Sometimes they don't go to
00:22:50the candidates websites even.
00:22:52And certainly they're
00:22:54they're not getting as much
00:22:54information as they used to
00:22:58when, you know,
00:22:58the press was more robust.
00:23:01What do you think is going to
00:23:01be the final effect of this?
00:23:03Because
00:23:05there's
00:23:05been the question about
00:23:06whether it just will
00:23:07foster fear and confusion
00:23:07and make people
00:23:10not want to get involved
00:23:10in ballot campaigns
00:23:12and be complicated
00:23:12for elections
00:23:15officials
00:23:15who are getting ready
00:23:16for a huge
00:23:16presidential election,
00:23:18along
00:23:18with all the other things.
00:23:19What do you think
00:23:19is the final effect of
00:23:19this is going to be
00:23:21so I'm not really I'm
00:23:21not really clear
00:23:23what the final effect will be.
00:23:25I do think that
00:23:25there could be some folks
00:23:29that will be overly worried
00:23:29about what are these
00:23:32to that
00:23:32these donations come from
00:23:34somebody who is married to
00:23:34somebody who has a green card,
00:23:37and the money
00:23:37came out of their account.
00:23:40And, you know, does
00:23:40this mean it's foreign money?
00:23:42Because that person made more
00:23:42than the person
00:23:44who actually made the donation,
00:23:49what I worry about
00:23:50is it stirs a lot of fear.
00:23:53And, you know, we're talking
00:23:54about the importance
00:23:54of direct democracy.
00:23:56You know, it's hard
00:23:57to imagine, you know,
00:23:57many, many, folks overseas
00:24:01that are very concerned
00:24:01about redistricting in Ohio.
00:24:05But, you know,
00:24:06what I think could happen is
00:24:06people will be more concerned.
00:24:09And then because we don't have
00:24:11greater transparency,
00:24:11this all may
00:24:13much to do about nothing,
00:24:15because if you can't actually
00:24:15follow the money easily
00:24:17in the first place,
00:24:19maybe this will have no impact
00:24:19whatsoever.
00:24:22The foreign money ban
00:24:22passed with an emergency
00:24:24clause attached, meaning it
00:24:25takes effect immediately
00:24:25after it's signed by DeWine.
00:24:28And that is it for this week,
00:24:28for my colleagues
00:24:30at the Statehouse News
00:24:30Bureau of Ohio
00:24:31Public Radio and Television.
00:24:31Thanks for watching.
00:24:34Please check out our website
00:24:34at State news.org
00:24:36or find us online by searching
00:24:36the State of Ohio show.
00:24:39You can also hear more
00:24:39from the Bureau
00:24:40on our podcast,
00:24:40The Ohio State House scoop.
00:24:43Look for it
00:24:43every Monday morning,
00:24:45wherever
00:24:45you get your podcasts,
00:24:47and please join us again
00:24:47next time
00:24:48here for the State of Ohio.
00:24:50I'd like to close this week
00:24:51with heartfelt congratulations
00:24:51to the class of 2024,
00:24:54which this
00:24:54year includes my son Jack.
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Note : Transcripts are compiled from uncorrected captions