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The State of Ohio

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The Browns bond package in the House budget gets critical reviews from two state agencies. And environmentalists are hoping for more green for the program that fights algal blooms.

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00:00:38	The Browns
00:00:38	bond package in the House
00:00:41	budget gets critical reviews
00:00:41	from two state agencies.
00:00:44	And environmentalists
00:00:44	are hoping for more green
00:00:46	from the program
00:00:46	that fights algal blooms.
00:00:48	That's this
00:00:48	weekend. The state of Ohio.
00:01:08	Just.
00:01:09	Welcome to the state of Ohio.
00:01:11	I'm Karen, counselor.
00:01:12	It was a tough week
00:01:12	for supporters
00:01:14	of the $600 million package
00:01:14	of state backed bonds to help
00:01:17	finance the $3.4 billion
00:01:17	dome stadium and development
00:01:21	for the Cleveland
00:01:21	Browns and Brooke Park.
00:01:23	It was added to the House
00:01:23	budget,
00:01:25	which all but five Republicans
00:01:25	voted for.
00:01:27	The team's owners have said
00:01:27	the income, sales
00:01:29	and other tax revenue
00:01:29	generated by the project
00:01:32	will be $1.3 billion
00:01:32	more than the billion dollars
00:01:35	the bonds will cost the state
00:01:37	this week,
00:01:38	we saw the first
00:01:38	publicly released reviews
00:01:40	of those claimed from state
00:01:40	officials.
00:01:42	The first one came Monday
00:01:42	from the bipartisan office
00:01:45	that does research for state
00:01:45	lawmakers.
00:01:47	The Legislative Service
00:01:47	Commission wrote
00:01:49	that it could not verify
00:01:49	the claims
00:01:51	in a report from consultants
00:01:51	for the Haslam Sports Group,
00:01:54	which was used to develop
00:01:54	the presentation
00:01:56	the team brought
00:01:56	to a House committee in March,
00:01:56	LSC wrote, quoting here
00:02:00	the SG projections implied
00:02:00	an outcome
00:02:03	that would outperform
00:02:03	other similar developments
00:02:06	previously studied in peer
00:02:06	reviewed academic literature,
00:02:09	and quote LLC also said
00:02:09	the 1.5 million new visitors
00:02:13	the team estimated
00:02:13	the development would attract,
00:02:15	quote,
00:02:15	may be overly optimistic
00:02:18	and said that
00:02:18	while the Dome stadium
00:02:20	will have a larger
00:02:20	seating capacity
00:02:22	than the Browns current
00:02:22	home in downtown Cleveland,
00:02:24	it would take 21 other
00:02:24	sold out events
00:02:27	to reach the predicted total,
00:02:27	and none of the three closest
00:02:30	stadiums had more than 12
00:02:30	such events in 2023.
00:02:34	Then Monday afternoon,
00:02:34	a scathing memo from Office
00:02:37	of Budget and Management
00:02:37	Director Kimberly Mannix.
00:02:40	In the memo, written in March
00:02:40	but just released
00:02:42	Monday morning, blasted
00:02:42	the bond proposal as risky
00:02:46	and said with other capital
00:02:46	projects in waiting, quote,
00:02:49	the state does not have
00:02:49	the capacity
00:02:52	to accommodate
00:02:52	these priorities,
00:02:53	plus $600 million in bonds
00:02:53	for a single sports facility.
00:02:57	And, quote,
00:02:58	Mannix wrote the Haslam Sports
00:02:58	Group, again quoting
00:03:01	inappropriately overstates
00:03:01	projections of future taxes
00:03:05	generated by the project over
00:03:05	inflating positive impacts
00:03:09	of the Brook Park
00:03:09	development and, quote,
00:03:11	and that the projections
00:03:11	of 6000 construction jobs.
00:03:14	Again, her words also appear
00:03:14	to be wildly overblown.
00:03:18	Mannix also writes
00:03:18	that the $1.01 billion
00:03:22	in estimated bond repayment
00:03:22	costs, again quoting,
00:03:25	will likely cost close
00:03:25	to twice as much
00:03:28	as the administration's
00:03:28	proposal
00:03:29	to use cash from increased
00:03:29	sports gaming tax.
00:03:33	Governor Mike DeWine,
00:03:33	who appointed Myrna
00:03:34	as budget
00:03:34	director, proposed that
00:03:36	to create a sports facilities
00:03:36	fund in his initial budget
00:03:40	that evening, the Haslam
00:03:40	Sports Group fired back
00:03:43	with a nine page letter
00:03:44	and a statement
00:03:44	about the two analyzes, HSG
00:03:47	said the LSC report
00:03:47	and the Ober memo
00:03:50	included questions
00:03:50	they had already addressed
00:03:53	with DeWine and other state
00:03:53	officials.
00:03:55	The statement
00:03:55	also said, quoting here,
00:03:57	we questioned
00:03:57	many of the memo's assertions
00:04:00	and also that the LSC memo
00:04:00	also contains
00:04:03	several inaccuracies
00:04:03	and misinformation.
00:04:06	The team owner said the bond
00:04:06	proposal is not risky
00:04:09	because there is quoting here
00:04:11	substantial excess
00:04:11	in our revenue projections
00:04:14	to more than cover state debt
00:04:14	service obligations,
00:04:17	and said the $50 million
00:04:17	in upfront cash,
00:04:20	as required in the House
00:04:20	budget,
00:04:21	would further derisk state
00:04:21	taxpayers.
00:04:24	The letter from the Browns
00:04:24	ownership team also calls out
00:04:27	Merrick's claim that the state
00:04:27	will own the stadium,
00:04:30	saying, quote,
00:04:31	the state will not own
00:04:31	the proposed
00:04:33	Brooke Park Stadium
00:04:33	or be responsible
00:04:35	for any maintenance
00:04:35	thereof. And quote.
00:04:38	But OBM followed up
00:04:39	with a line from page
00:04:39	316 of the House budget,
00:04:42	and this is a quote, The state
00:04:42	or a state agency owns
00:04:46	or has sufficient property
00:04:46	interests in the major sports
00:04:49	facility or in the site
00:04:49	of the major sports facility,
00:04:52	or in the portion or portions
00:04:52	of the major sports facility
00:04:56	financed from proceeds
00:04:56	of state bonds, end quote.
00:05:00	Republican House Speaker
00:05:00	Matt Huffman,
00:05:01	who along with finance Chair
00:05:01	Brian
00:05:03	Stewart
00:05:03	championed the bond package
00:05:05	as a good investment
00:05:05	for the state.
00:05:07	Was asked for his thoughts on
00:05:07	those analysis on Wednesday.
00:05:10	Well, I haven't reviewed that.
00:05:12	I tell you about the LSC,
00:05:14	I just
00:05:14	I read a kind of
00:05:15	a story about it, but
00:05:15	I haven't reviewed the report,
00:05:18	so it's hard to respond to it.
00:05:21	And, you
00:05:22	know, I just a lot of times
00:05:25	what's in a report is based
00:05:25	on what questions were asked,
00:05:28	and I don't know
00:05:28	what questions were asked
00:05:30	and what I was responding to.
00:05:31	So, I would also say that
00:05:31	president McKinley
00:05:35	did made a courtesy
00:05:35	of taking two months to,
00:05:39	while the House had the budget
00:05:39	and, not commenting.
00:05:42	So, on various issues,
00:05:45	you know, I'm going to extend
00:05:45	the same courtesy to him
00:05:47	on these issues.
00:05:48	Are there other things
00:05:48	coming for the house?
00:05:50	Of course.
00:05:51	Yeah, sorry about that.
00:05:51	So I'd have to read it
00:05:51	to really build
00:05:54	I have not read that.
00:05:56	Is that, Director Murdochs?
00:05:58	Yes. Yeah.
00:05:58	I haven't
00:05:58	I haven't seen
00:05:59	her report today, but I know
00:05:59	that they were considering it.
00:06:03	I know that
00:06:03	the state treasurer looked at
00:06:05	they helped
00:06:05	with some of the language,
00:06:07	and suggested some,
00:06:07	some language changes to it.
00:06:11	I think the Browns have
00:06:11	their own outside consultant.
00:06:14	There's a couple of other
00:06:14	financial institutions
00:06:17	separately
00:06:17	that are reviewing it.
00:06:20	So, I mean,
00:06:20	you know, we can see where
00:06:20	all of these things land.
00:06:24	You know,
00:06:24	whether the, the brown,
00:06:26	you know, the, the outside
00:06:26	consultants, which I think,
00:06:29	financial institutions
00:06:29	and eventually their reports,
00:06:32	I think will become public,
00:06:32	have indicated to me that the,
00:06:37	the Browns,
00:06:37	numbers are conservative
00:06:40	Hoffman said
00:06:40	at the press conference,
00:06:41	unveiling the House
00:06:41	budget on March 31st
00:06:44	that the Browns Dome stadium
00:06:44	and development
00:06:46	was the largest project
00:06:46	in the history of the state,
00:06:48	with the exception
00:06:48	of the Intel project,
00:06:50	with $1.2
00:06:50	billion in private money.
00:06:53	He said it made sense for the
00:06:53	state to go forward with it.
00:06:57	other day said, well,
00:06:57	these are general obligation
00:06:59	bonds, aren't they.
00:06:59	Yeah they are.
00:07:00	That's different
00:07:00	from a revenue bond,
00:07:02	which I explained
00:07:03	in my last press conference
00:07:03	what a revenue bond is.
00:07:06	But this acts like,
00:07:06	in my mind, a revenue bond
00:07:09	because the new taxes
00:07:09	within the four corners of
00:07:13	this track, that's not
00:07:14	there'll be a water park
00:07:14	12 miles away
00:07:16	maybe, or some new home
00:07:16	within this tract.
00:07:19	The their calculation.
00:07:21	And we've sent it
00:07:21	to the Treasurer's office.
00:07:23	We've sent it to OMB.
00:07:24	We sent it to lots of people
00:07:24	and everybody.
00:07:26	But their calculation
00:07:27	is that all of this money
00:07:27	will come back to the state.
00:07:31	And in fact,
00:07:32	the money that the state
00:07:32	will be paying now
00:07:34	that there will be a positive
00:07:34	back to the state target
00:07:37	starting in 2029, The LSC memo
00:07:37	says, quoting here,
00:07:41	the bonds as described in the
00:07:41	House passed version of HB 96
00:07:45	would not be general
00:07:45	obligation bonds, i.e.
00:07:48	bonds backed by the full faith
00:07:48	and credit of the state.
00:07:51	Rather,
00:07:51	they are special obligation
00:07:53	or revenue obligation bonds.
00:07:55	Whether this means they are
00:07:56	constitutional
00:07:56	is an open question,
00:07:58	and ultimately, only a judge
00:07:58	could make that determination
00:08:01	and, quote, no Democrats
00:08:01	voted for the House budget.
00:08:05	And several have criticized
00:08:05	the Browns bond package.
00:08:08	Minority Leader Allison Russo
00:08:09	said she's seen the leak,
00:08:09	and OB reviews of it.
00:08:12	I have read them.
00:08:13	Not surprised to see
00:08:13	that the estimates
00:08:16	were likely,
00:08:16	generous and over estimates.
00:08:20	And I think in the last
00:08:20	two decades, the public
00:08:22	funding for stadium projects
00:08:23	all across the country,
00:08:23	this is pretty consistent.
00:08:26	I don't know why
00:08:26	we think Ohio is an exception
00:08:29	or the Brown Stadium
00:08:29	is an exception to that.
00:08:31	yes, there are members of my
00:08:31	caucus who have huge concerns.
00:08:33	I think their members, in the
00:08:33	Republican caucus as well.
00:08:37	And I think this speaks to,
00:08:40	yes, the need that
00:08:40	this plan needs to be vetted.
00:08:43	We need to have information
00:08:43	and input,
00:08:46	from multiple sources,
00:08:46	because, again,
00:08:48	the last couple of decades
00:08:48	of public funding for stadium,
00:08:52	stadium construction
00:08:52	has proven over and over again
00:08:57	the return on investment
00:08:57	is not good.
00:08:59	It's not a good
00:08:59	public investment.
00:09:01	And I think especially
00:09:02	in this moment of time,
00:09:02	when we are talking about,
00:09:06	schools
00:09:06	not getting the resources
00:09:07	that they need, health care
00:09:07	being at risk,
00:09:10	through possible cuts
00:09:10	through Medicaid,
00:09:12	seniors
00:09:12	not getting the services
00:09:14	they need, food
00:09:14	banks, needing more funding.
00:09:18	You know,
00:09:18	sending our public dollars
00:09:20	to a stadium,
00:09:20	is not responsible governing.
00:09:23	And I said earlier, I think
00:09:23	it's morally reprehensible.
00:09:26	The Bengals
00:09:27	have asked for money now,
00:09:27	and so has FC Cincinnati
00:09:32	and so has nationwide.
00:09:33	So tell me,
00:09:33	how are you feeling?
00:09:35	Did you expect
00:09:35	I mean, you expected this day.
00:09:37	Sure. Yes.
00:09:38	I mean, of course, you know,
00:09:38	we opened the door
00:09:41	and everyone wants their,
00:09:41	cut of funding.
00:09:45	And so, you know, it's
00:09:45	not that I don't think,
00:09:48	these, you know,
00:09:48	projects are worthy, but,
00:09:52	you've got a lot
00:09:53	of billionaires and companies
00:09:53	that are behind these teams,
00:09:57	and they, you know,
00:09:57	should put up the investment,
00:10:00	for those projects.
00:10:01	Now is not the time
00:10:01	I think, for the state
00:10:03	to be stepping in,
00:10:03	especially given the needs
00:10:06	that we have in the state,
00:10:06	the very real needs of people.
00:10:09	The Senate is expected to pass
00:10:09	a bill banning ranked choice
00:10:12	voting is a bipartisan
00:10:12	bill over there.
00:10:14	Do you expect there
00:10:15	to be bipartisan
00:10:15	support for it over here?
00:10:16	And what are your thoughts?
00:10:17	I don't know.
00:10:19	I mean, listen,
00:10:19	I personally
00:10:20	am opposed to that bill,
00:10:20	not because I necessarily,
00:10:23	you know, think ranked choice
00:10:23	voting is some magic bullet,
00:10:26	but I think any bill that,
00:10:26	prohibits or blocks access,
00:10:32	to voting and the ballot
00:10:32	in the way that,
00:10:36	local communities have decided
00:10:37	if they decided
00:10:37	to use ranked choice voting.
00:10:40	I'm not supportive of that.
00:10:43	What's your ideal type
00:10:43	of reform for Delta eight?
00:10:45	The Senate, I believe,
00:10:45	is looking to pass a bill.
00:10:48	Yeah, yeah.
00:10:50	Well, I think at a minimum,
00:10:50	I think you know,
00:10:53	having
00:10:53	some sort of requirement
00:10:55	that it is behind the counter
00:10:55	that, you have to show,
00:11:00	proper identification,
00:11:00	that there has to be testing
00:11:03	of what's actually in
00:11:03	the product.
00:11:05	Is a good start.
00:11:07	I mean, frankly,
00:11:07	if it were up to me
00:11:07	individually, but it's not
00:11:09	I would probably ban
00:11:09	the products.
00:11:12	But I think, the easy access,
00:11:12	particularly to teens
00:11:16	and underage
00:11:16	users, is pretty pervasive.
00:11:20	And, we need more
00:11:20	restrictions around it,
00:11:23	to eliminate that
00:11:23	and put guardrails around it.
00:11:27	The budget is now in
00:11:27	the Senate, and Finance Chair
00:11:30	Jerry
00:11:30	Serino has said Republicans
00:11:31	in that chamber
00:11:32	are evaluating all options
00:11:34	right now
00:11:34	with regard to the Browns
00:11:36	and subsequent sports
00:11:36	related economic development.
00:11:40	One of the many changes
00:11:40	the House made from fellow
00:11:42	Republican Governor
00:11:43	Mike DeWine budget
00:11:43	was with his H2 Ohio program.
00:11:47	He began it
00:11:47	when he took office in 2019
00:11:49	as a way to reduce
00:11:50	nutrient runoff into waters
00:11:50	that feed into Lake Erie
00:11:54	and replace or create
00:11:55	wetlands to filter water
00:11:55	and stop erosion.
00:11:58	DeWine had hoped
00:11:58	it would be a $900
00:12:00	million decade
00:12:01	long effort,
00:12:01	but there's never been
00:12:03	a dedicated
00:12:03	funding source for it.
00:12:05	The House budget takes the H2
00:12:05	Ohio program from $270
00:12:09	million in DeWine's budget
00:12:09	to $150 million, a 45% cut
00:12:14	for a program that most agree
00:12:14	has been working.
00:12:17	Advocates from farming,
00:12:17	water quality
00:12:20	and environmental groups
00:12:20	are hoping
00:12:21	that would change
00:12:21	in the Senate.
00:12:24	I talked about it
00:12:24	with Peter Booker of the Ohio
00:12:26	Environmental Council Action
00:12:26	Fund,
00:12:28	who says he doesn't think
00:12:29	the reduction shows
00:12:29	that there's a belief
00:12:31	that H2 Ohio's work
00:12:31	here is done.
00:12:33	So H2 Ohio was started
00:12:33	when governor
00:12:35	Mike DeWine
00:12:35	took office in 2019.
00:12:37	He had hoped eventually
00:12:37	it would be a $900
00:12:39	million, decade long effort
00:12:39	to reduce nutrient runoff
00:12:43	in waters
00:12:43	that feed into Lake Erie
00:12:45	and also replace
00:12:45	or create wetlands
00:12:47	that, would lead to less
00:12:47	erosion and filter
00:12:51	the water, essentially.
00:12:52	So this what we're seeing
00:12:52	in the House
00:12:54	version of the budget,
00:12:54	is a 45% cut from what
00:12:54	DeWine had initially proposed.
00:12:59	Does that mean that H2
00:12:59	Ohio is no longer needed?
00:13:02	That's not how I would
00:13:02	interpret that.
00:13:04	I think it's really just
00:13:04	the leaders of this process
00:13:07	maneuvering
00:13:07	to try to find things
00:13:08	they can negotiate with
00:13:08	down the road.
00:13:10	I think
00:13:10	if you look at the progress
00:13:11	we've made towards our, 2025
00:13:11	commitment to reduce
00:13:15	phosphorus in Lake Erie
00:13:15	by 40%, we're not there yet.
00:13:18	And so I would argue
00:13:18	we need more resources
00:13:20	or a longer term plan
00:13:20	for those resources
00:13:22	to reach our commitment
00:13:22	as a state.
00:13:24	Again,
00:13:24	I think it's just trying
00:13:25	to, to, to jockey a little bit
00:13:25	and try to find ways
00:13:28	they can negotiate down
00:13:28	the road.
00:13:30	We're hopeful we'll get that
00:13:30	funding restored.
00:13:32	Because it was proposed
00:13:32	at a level
00:13:33	that is where they're at
00:13:33	right now.
00:13:34	And so
00:13:35	any reduction in
00:13:35	that could mean
00:13:37	they just get less
00:13:37	projects out there
00:13:39	and can help less parts
00:13:39	of the state.
00:13:41	House Speaker Matt Huffman
00:13:41	has said of the cuts that H2
00:13:44	Ohio has in many ways
00:13:44	achieved the goals
00:13:46	that it was set out to do that
00:13:46	there's money in the fund
00:13:49	that can be used
00:13:49	for other programs.
00:13:50	And it is true
00:13:50	that, like in February,
00:13:53	there were more than
00:13:53	200 wetlands that were done
00:13:53	or in process announced.
00:13:57	So that's a milestone goal
00:13:57	right there.
00:14:00	And, there have been, what,
00:14:00	3200 farmers who've enrolled
00:14:03	2.2 million acres in western
00:14:03	Ohio in the program.
00:14:06	So the program
00:14:06	has accomplished
00:14:08	certain goals,
00:14:08	but like you just said,
00:14:09	it hasn't reached others.
00:14:11	Yeah.
00:14:11	I think if you're looking at
00:14:11	quantitative, it's done a lot.
00:14:14	It's got a lot of acres
00:14:14	enrolled,
00:14:15	a lot of farmers
00:14:15	enrolled, a lot of water,
00:14:17	water
00:14:17	infrastructure projects done.
00:14:19	But if you look
00:14:19	at the quantitative
00:14:20	data, we've
00:14:20	still got some work to do.
00:14:22	It took a long time
00:14:22	for the state
00:14:24	to develop the harmful algal
00:14:24	bloom problems that it has.
00:14:26	And it's
00:14:26	going to take a long time
00:14:28	with keeping the same type
00:14:28	of practices in place
00:14:30	to really reach our goals,
00:14:32	especially when we talk about
00:14:33	the agricultural pieces of it.
00:14:34	If they're going on a 1
00:14:34	or 2 year contract
00:14:36	and a farmer
00:14:37	no longer
00:14:37	has that financial assurance,
00:14:39	they may do it
00:14:39	out of the goodness
00:14:40	of their heart
00:14:40	with their own pocketbook.
00:14:42	But it may also stop
00:14:42	doing the practice, which then
00:14:45	we lose the progress
00:14:45	that was gained.
00:14:46	It's not like it stays in
00:14:46	place. It can roll backwards.
00:14:49	If we don't
00:14:49	keep projects in place.
00:14:51	What does the money actually
00:14:51	go to do?
00:14:54	How do how does that money
00:14:54	get parceled out to farmers
00:14:56	and to other partners
00:14:56	in the program?
00:14:59	Yeah.
00:14:59	So it goes through
00:14:59	primarily three
00:15:01	agencies, the Ohio
00:15:01	Department of Agriculture,
00:15:03	which really utilizes
00:15:03	their county.
00:15:05	So the water district folks
00:15:06	to bring in farmers,
00:15:06	get them signed up
00:15:08	for certain types
00:15:08	of conservation
00:15:10	practices that fit their farm
00:15:10	needs, as well as will
00:15:13	ultimately reduce nutrients
00:15:13	and then they get so
00:15:15	solidified
00:15:15	in a contract agreement
00:15:17	where they get paid out.
00:15:18	If they complete that
00:15:19	with the Department
00:15:19	of Natural Resources,
00:15:21	they usually open it up
00:15:21	to a grant period, based off
00:15:24	of either Western Lake Erie
00:15:24	basin or statewide watershed.
00:15:27	And then applicants like park
00:15:27	districts, land trusts,
00:15:30	local municipalities,
00:15:32	anyone that has a project
00:15:32	that might fit can apply,
00:15:35	and then they score those
00:15:35	and vet those based off
00:15:37	of how much nutrient
00:15:37	reduction outcome we can see.
00:15:39	And then those projects
00:15:39	are completed
00:15:41	and then ideally kept
00:15:41	in perpetuity so they can keep
00:15:44	staying in place,
00:15:44	to see that benefit.
00:15:47	And then the Ohio
00:15:47	Environmental Protection
00:15:48	Agency gets a chunk
00:15:48	of the funding as well.
00:15:50	They work
00:15:50	primarily with municipalities
00:15:53	to work at water
00:15:53	infrastructure or wastewater,
00:15:55	or drinking water
00:15:55	improvements to their system.
00:15:58	A lot of the communities
00:15:58	that have gotten
00:15:59	those grants aren't
00:15:59	big enough to pull down
00:16:01	the traditional
00:16:01	infrastructure dollars,
00:16:03	so I feel like
00:16:03	they are really filling
00:16:05	a critical gap
00:16:05	that's there to make sure
00:16:07	these small and medium
00:16:08	water utilities
00:16:08	have the resources available
00:16:10	to improve their water
00:16:10	quality as well.
00:16:12	And then odnr an EPA have
00:16:14	what's called the Rivers
00:16:14	Initiative.
00:16:15	It's the newest portion
00:16:15	for the last two years
00:16:18	where they look at anything
00:16:18	from studying
00:16:20	Foss in our rivers to stream
00:16:20	bank, erosion to dam removal,
00:16:24	where they're really just
00:16:25	getting even further
00:16:25	into unique watersheds
00:16:27	because there's different
00:16:27	needs everywhere.
00:16:29	And you've got
00:16:29	a lot of different partners
00:16:31	who are all working on this.
00:16:32	I mean, for instance,
00:16:32	the United States and Canada
00:16:34	trying to reduce the runoff
00:16:34	into Lake Erie by 40%,
00:16:37	which you just mentioned.
00:16:37	A few minutes ago,
00:16:40	that involves Ohio,
00:16:40	Michigan, Ontario.
00:16:42	You've got farms, obviously,
00:16:42	not just farmers,
00:16:45	but also these big factory
00:16:45	farms.
00:16:47	You've got municipal
00:16:47	sewer systems.
00:16:49	How can you coordinate
00:16:49	all of these different
00:16:52	entities
00:16:52	that all feed into the problem
00:16:54	of nutrient runoff in the Lake
00:16:54	Erie?
00:16:56	Yeah.
00:16:57	Well,
00:16:57	as far as the administration
00:16:57	side goes, the higher
00:16:59	Lake Erie Commission
00:16:59	gets a small segment
00:17:01	of funding
00:17:02	where they're supposed
00:17:02	to kind of help
00:17:03	be that internal coordinator
00:17:03	for the administration.
00:17:06	But outside of that,
00:17:06	each industry
00:17:08	that you mentioned
00:17:09	is so different
00:17:09	that each agency
00:17:11	is the one really in charge
00:17:11	of engaging their members,
00:17:13	improving the program
00:17:13	based on feedback,
00:17:15	and they do it in their silos.
00:17:17	But ultimately
00:17:17	knowing that it's helping,
00:17:19	you know, across the board,
00:17:19	as the efforts are unified,
00:17:21	is the number of factory
00:17:21	farms, those big, large farms
00:17:25	that have been growing
00:17:25	in western
00:17:27	Ohio over
00:17:27	the last couple of years.
00:17:28	Is that a big contributor
00:17:28	here?
00:17:31	It's hard to say specifically
00:17:32	for CFOs, the large factory
00:17:32	farms.
00:17:34	I think there's
00:17:34	a lot of science
00:17:36	to show that watersheds
00:17:36	might have a carrying capacity
00:17:39	for livestock,
00:17:39	as far as how much nutrients
00:17:41	or manure that can generate it
00:17:41	out of that.
00:17:43	But I think we really just
00:17:45	need to treat nutrients
00:17:46	as the same
00:17:46	and try to reduce them
00:17:47	across the board,
00:17:47	whether they be
00:17:49	from agricultural fields
00:17:49	or from wastewater
00:17:51	treatment disposal.
00:17:53	Or from other sources
00:17:53	like skeptics.
00:17:55	We need to get rid
00:17:55	of all phosphorus
00:17:57	from our watersheds.
00:17:58	There is no dedicated
00:17:58	funding source for H2 Ohio.
00:18:02	Is that something that
00:18:03	you'd want to see, and if so,
00:18:03	where would that come from?
00:18:06	Yeah, there.
00:18:06	There's a lot of effort
00:18:06	and interest right now
00:18:08	of how do we maybe secure
00:18:08	a long term
00:18:10	program beyond
00:18:10	the DeWine administration
00:18:12	to continue the work
00:18:12	as it's been designed
00:18:14	over the last six years
00:18:14	or ultimately eight years?
00:18:16	And so the best, really
00:18:18	a possibility
00:18:19	in a lot of groups, minds
00:18:19	that work on
00:18:20	this is looking at a long term
00:18:20	bond option,
00:18:23	like, you see, with clean Ohio
00:18:23	and some other programs
00:18:25	that have done
00:18:25	a lot of good work,
00:18:26	that's obviously going
00:18:26	to take support
00:18:28	from the legislature
00:18:28	to put it forth to voters.
00:18:31	But I think that could be
00:18:31	a really interesting way
00:18:32	to, secure program
00:18:32	for about ten years at a time
00:18:36	and keep that
00:18:37	that solidity for a farmer
00:18:37	that might want to make sure
00:18:39	they can budget for this
00:18:39	for ten years,
00:18:41	as well as all the other
00:18:41	conservation groups
00:18:43	that, you know,
00:18:43	have to do planning as well
00:18:43	to know
00:18:45	there's going to be money
00:18:45	for wetlands down the road.
00:18:47	I can imagine
00:18:48	you probably don't
00:18:48	want to think about this,
00:18:49	but if indeed the budget
00:18:49	stays as is,
00:18:52	what is the future
00:18:52	of some of these programs
00:18:55	that you've talked about here,
00:18:55	like even the new part,
00:18:57	the H2 H2 Ohio Rivers
00:18:57	Initiative,
00:19:00	are these programs
00:19:00	just going to be derailed?
00:19:03	It's going to really be up
00:19:03	to the agency leadership,
00:19:05	what they do
00:19:05	with the resources they get.
00:19:07	It's going
00:19:07	to be a tough situation
00:19:09	where they might have to
00:19:09	just prioritize
00:19:10	differently
00:19:10	than they have right now.
00:19:12	For example, Oda recently
00:19:13	has put money
00:19:13	in every county in the state
00:19:15	instead of just the northwest
00:19:15	part of the state.
00:19:18	So do they continue
00:19:18	to do that to build education?
00:19:20	I'm not sure that'll
00:19:20	really be up
00:19:22	to Director Baldridge
00:19:22	and the governor
00:19:23	and their team,
00:19:24	but it's probably going
00:19:24	to make some tougher decisions
00:19:26	about where they put
00:19:26	the resources they have.
00:19:28	You do have a lot of support
00:19:28	from the the biggest farm
00:19:32	group in Ohio,
00:19:32	the Ohio Farm Bureau,
00:19:34	that would like to see this
00:19:34	continue.
00:19:36	Does that give you hope
00:19:37	that you've got
00:19:37	farmers on board here
00:19:39	who are using their influence
00:19:39	to try to keep this going?
00:19:42	Yeah.
00:19:43	The Farm Bureau
00:19:43	has been a terrific partner
00:19:44	since it was conceived.
00:19:44	on this program
00:19:47	And have really put
00:19:47	a lot of priority on Lake Erie
00:19:49	because their members
00:19:49	are right
00:19:50	in the middle of the issue
00:19:51	and wanted to see
00:19:51	it fixed as well.
00:19:53	But I think we've got
00:19:53	a really diverse
00:19:54	group
00:19:54	of stakeholders at the table.
00:19:56	We've got business entities
00:19:57	that want to see
00:19:57	this continued.
00:19:58	You heard a lot when Intel
00:19:58	decided to come here.
00:20:00	The water was a part of
00:20:01	the reason
00:20:01	they wanted to come here.
00:20:03	And then you've certainly got
00:20:04	conservation groups,
00:20:04	you know, hunters, spot
00:20:06	hunters and anglers,
00:20:06	sportsmen groups,
00:20:08	and of course,
00:20:09	environmental groups
00:20:09	that all are really binding
00:20:09	together in a way
00:20:11	you don't see a lot
00:20:11	for issues.
00:20:13	So we're hoping the diverse
00:20:14	coalition can help
00:20:14	show the legislators
00:20:16	that we really need
00:20:16	to prioritize this.
00:20:18	There were
00:20:18	some environmental advocates
00:20:20	who said that they didn't
00:20:20	feel like it went far enough.
00:20:21	They were concerned
00:20:21	about the scope of H2 Ohio.
00:20:26	Has that been resolved,
00:20:27	or are there still people
00:20:27	out there who just don't think
00:20:29	it's enough, that it doesn't
00:20:29	go much further
00:20:31	than previous administrations
00:20:31	went? Yeah.
00:20:33	I mean,
00:20:33	I think there's
00:20:33	always going to be entities
00:20:34	that would like
00:20:34	to see something
00:20:35	go further,
00:20:36	like maybe
00:20:36	go down a regulatory approach
00:20:38	to try to solve
00:20:38	these problems.
00:20:39	I think for me, I look back
00:20:41	at what we were doing under
00:20:41	the previous administration
00:20:43	where there wasn't
00:20:43	a whole lot of state
00:20:45	level resources
00:20:45	to try to solve it.
00:20:47	There was a growing issue,
00:20:47	there was federal resources.
00:20:50	But I think
00:20:50	now it's been a relief
00:20:51	that we've at least been able
00:20:51	to add some resources
00:20:53	and put our money
00:20:53	where your mouth is as a state
00:20:55	to try
00:20:55	to solve these problems,
00:20:57	but we always need
00:20:57	to do adaptive management
00:20:59	to see how we can do better.
00:21:00	And I think, you know,
00:21:00	looking at other creative
00:21:02	solutions
00:21:02	should always be on the table.
00:21:04	But, right now
00:21:05	we need to try to just
00:21:05	improve the program we have
00:21:07	and hopefully fund it
00:21:08	long term and make sure the
00:21:08	dollars are yielding impact.
00:21:11	A couple of years before H2
00:21:11	Ohio was begun,
00:21:14	there was this crisis
00:21:14	in Toledo
00:21:16	where this algal bloom
00:21:16	essentially shut down water
00:21:19	access to the city of Toledo
00:21:19	for three days.
00:21:22	And that was in 2014,
00:21:22	I believe, we're approaching
00:21:25	warmer weather now.
00:21:27	What does the forecast
00:21:27	look like for algal blooms
00:21:30	this year?
00:21:30	Last year's
00:21:31	algal bloom was early,
00:21:31	I think earlier than it has
00:21:34	been in like 20 years.
00:21:35	So what does it look like
00:21:35	this year? Yeah.
00:21:37	So the research community
00:21:38	that does that prediction
00:21:38	does it closer to July 4th.
00:21:41	So probably mid to late
00:21:41	June would be my guess.
00:21:43	And they really look at water
00:21:45	runoff and then try to use
00:21:45	modeling to try to predict it.
00:21:48	But generally
00:21:48	the warmest months
00:21:48	are going to be
00:21:50	when we're most at risk
00:21:51	because it takes
00:21:52	the food source
00:21:52	with the phosphorus,
00:21:53	but then temperature
00:21:53	for the blooms to grow
00:21:55	and potentially
00:21:55	grow out of control.
00:21:57	And so generally
00:21:57	it's going to be from late
00:21:59	June till maybe September,
00:21:59	maybe October,
00:22:01	if it's a warm fall
00:22:03	that the lake
00:22:03	and other watersheds
00:22:04	probably
00:22:04	will see some algal blooms.
00:22:06	If there's some rain events
00:22:06	this year,
00:22:07	and we could see algal blooms
00:22:07	not only in Lake Erie,
00:22:09	but also in other lakes
00:22:09	throughout the
00:22:11	mostly
00:22:11	the western part of Ohio.
00:22:13	Correct?
00:22:13	Yeah, we've
00:22:13	unfortunately seen in
00:22:14	pretty much every watershed
00:22:14	that's a significant size,
00:22:17	including the Ohio River,
00:22:17	which was pretty unique
00:22:20	until recent history.
00:22:20	So it's a problem.
00:22:22	That's really something
00:22:22	that can be fixed anywhere.
00:22:25	But Lake Erie
00:22:25	gets a lot of the headlines.
00:22:27	Can it be fixed
00:22:27	permanently, though?
00:22:28	I think a lot of people think
00:22:28	H2 Ohio was intended to fix
00:22:32	the problem
00:22:32	cannot be completely resolved,
00:22:35	I think so, I mean,
00:22:35	it may not be perfect
00:22:35	every single year,
00:22:37	but the state's goal to reduce
00:22:37	phosphorous by 40%
00:22:40	was intended to set a target.
00:22:41	That is a manageable level
00:22:43	of algal blooms
00:22:43	for communities
00:22:44	that might see it in the
00:22:44	Toledo community, most notably
00:22:47	where they may still happen.
00:22:48	But they're not going
00:22:48	to overwhelm
00:22:49	the beaches, overwhelm
00:22:49	the water system,
00:22:52	really hinder
00:22:52	the charter boat
00:22:52	fishing up there
00:22:54	and all the other
00:22:54	recreational activities.
00:22:56	And of course, the drinking
00:22:56	water, as I mentioned.
00:22:58	So, there
00:22:58	still could be years of flux.
00:23:00	That's just the way that
00:23:01	the ecosystem works
00:23:01	with rain events.
00:23:03	But it is something
00:23:03	we can fix.
00:23:05	It's just going to take
00:23:06	adapting our landscape
00:23:06	to handle severe rain events,
00:23:09	keep nutrients on the field
00:23:09	where they're intended,
00:23:11	as well as from other sources
00:23:11	where they're intended.
00:23:13	And I think we can build
00:23:13	a more resilient
00:23:15	northwest Ohio to fix this.
00:23:17	And while I have you here,
00:23:17	I want to ask you
00:23:19	about House Bill 15,
00:23:19	which is a big energy bill
00:23:21	that's under consideration.
00:23:22	There's
00:23:22	kind of two versions of it,
00:23:24	but it looks like House Bill
00:23:24	15 might be the one.
00:23:26	It would shorten
00:23:26	the review process to build
00:23:29	energy generation facilities,
00:23:29	especially for data centers,
00:23:32	and also would repeal
00:23:33	the subsidies for coal fired
00:23:35	power plants
00:23:35	that were in House Bill six,
00:23:37	the nuclear power plant
00:23:37	bailout
00:23:39	law that was the center of the
00:23:41	bribery scandal
00:23:41	involving Republican
00:23:42	former House Speaker
00:23:42	Larry Householder.
00:23:44	You're on board
00:23:44	with this bill.
00:23:46	Yeah.
00:23:46	Our organization
00:23:46	has been supporting it
00:23:47	for several weeks now,
00:23:47	and we think it's
00:23:49	a big step forward for Ohio
00:23:49	with our energy policy.
00:23:52	The repeal, especially,
00:23:52	has been the big
00:23:54	one for us
00:23:54	that we would love to see
00:23:55	immediately repealed
00:23:55	because taxpayers
00:23:57	have been on the hook
00:23:57	for too many years now,
00:23:59	trying to subsidize
00:23:59	these Cold War era coal plants
00:24:02	that we really just need
00:24:02	to move forward
00:24:03	from towards
00:24:03	cleaner sources of energy.
00:24:05	And so we feel this bill
00:24:05	is a good vehicle to do that.
00:24:08	There's still going to be more
00:24:08	to do around community solar
00:24:11	and to demand response
00:24:11	for the grid.
00:24:13	But, it might be a big step.
00:24:15	I think there are people
00:24:15	who are concerned
00:24:16	about
00:24:16	the shortening of that process
00:24:18	and that
00:24:19	maybe, you know, data
00:24:19	centers are going to go out
00:24:21	and build these energy
00:24:21	generation facilities.
00:24:23	I could be living
00:24:23	next to one of these things.
00:24:25	Is this what we really want
00:24:25	to see happen?
00:24:27	What do you
00:24:27	tell people about that?
00:24:29	That's one small point
00:24:29	where we advocated
00:24:31	in the committee process
00:24:31	with legislators
00:24:33	that we would like to see it
00:24:34	a little longer
00:24:34	than what they wanted.
00:24:35	The mantra really was
00:24:37	we need to get energy
00:24:37	generation on the grid
00:24:39	as soon as possible
00:24:39	because of rising demand.
00:24:41	But we don't want to see it
00:24:41	be so quick
00:24:43	that community input
00:24:43	is not considered.
00:24:45	And so,
00:24:46	we will see how it goes
00:24:47	if this is what they decide
00:24:47	to do,
00:24:49	but may come back and advocate
00:24:49	for a longer process
00:24:51	to make sure we don't
00:24:51	skip steps
00:24:53	just to get energy
00:24:53	generation on line.
00:24:55	Is there a concern about
00:24:55	too many of these facilities
00:24:57	in Ohio?
00:24:59	Certainly long term rising
00:24:59	demand is going to be tough.
00:25:02	We're going to have to meet
00:25:02	that with
00:25:03	different fuel sources
00:25:03	than we have today.
00:25:06	Ultimately,
00:25:06	we're hopeful that we can see
00:25:08	more renewable sources,
00:25:08	more cleaner sources online
00:25:11	to generate them
00:25:11	that might not be realized,
00:25:13	you know, next year, in 2030.
00:25:15	But we're hopeful
00:25:15	that we can meet
00:25:16	the demand with clean energy
00:25:16	sources.
00:25:19	that energy bill, House Bill
00:25:19	15, is now headed to DeWine
00:25:22	for his signature.
00:25:23	And that is it for this week,
00:25:23	for my colleagues,
00:25:25	the statehouse news
00:25:25	Bureau of Ohio public Media.
00:25:27	Thanks for watching.
00:25:28	Please check out our website
00:25:28	at State news.org
00:25:31	or find us online
00:25:31	by searching.
00:25:32	State of Ohio show.
00:25:34	We'll keep you up to date
00:25:34	via Ohio State House alerts
00:25:37	if you register through this
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00:25:39	Text state News to this number
00:25:39	or go to this website.
00:25:43	You can also hear more
00:25:43	from my colleagues
00:25:45	Joe Ingles and Sarah Donaldson
00:25:45	and me on our podcast,
00:25:47	The Ohio State House
00:25:47	scoop every Monday morning
00:25:51	and so long to Ron Corby,
00:25:52	our former director
00:25:52	and producer of the show
00:25:55	after 24 years
00:25:55	at the state House.
00:25:57	Please join us again next
00:25:57	time for the State of Ohio.
00:26:05	Just.
00:26:06	Support
00:26:06	for the Statehouse News
00:26:08	Bureau
00:26:08	comes from Medical Mutual,
00:26:09	dedicated to the health
00:26:09	and well-being of Ohioans,
00:26:12	offering health insurance
00:26:12	plans, as well as dental,
00:26:15	vision and wellness programs
00:26:15	to help people
00:26:17	achieve their goals
00:26:17	and remain healthy.
00:26:19	More at Med mutual.com.
00:26:21	The law offices of Porter,
00:26:21	right, Morris and Arthur LLP.
00:26:24	Porter Wright is dedicated
00:26:24	to bringing inspired legal
00:26:27	outcomes to the Ohio business
00:26:27	community.
00:26:30	More at porterwright.com.
00:26:31	Porter Wright
00:26:31	inspired Every day
00:26:34	in Ohio Education Association,
00:26:34	representing 120,000
00:26:37	educators who are united
00:26:37	in their mission
00:26:39	to create the excellent
00:26:39	public schools.
00:26:41	Every child
00:26:41	deserves more at OHEA.org.

Note : Transcripts are compiled from uncorrected captions