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The State of Ohio

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The owners of the Cleveland Browns want to leave their stadium home of almost 26 years for a domed facility 12 miles away - paid for equally by the owners, local government and the state of Ohio. We tackle the state's part of the plan, this week in "The State of Ohio". Studio Guests are Representatives Democrat Terrence Upchurch and Freshman Republican David Thomas.

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00:00:39	the owners of the Cleveland
00:00:39	Browns want to leave
00:00:41	their stadium home of over
00:00:41	25 years for a dome facility
00:00:45	12 miles away, paid
00:00:45	for equally by the owners,
00:00:48	local government
00:00:48	and the state of Ohio
00:00:50	will tackle the state
00:00:50	part of the plan this weekend.
00:00:53	The state of Ohio.
00:01:12	Just.
00:01:13	Welcome to the state of Ohio.
00:01:15	I'm Karen, counselor.
00:01:16	The owners of the Cleveland
00:01:17	Browns
00:01:17	want a new domed stadium
00:01:19	outside of downtown
00:01:19	in Brook Park.
00:01:22	And they say it'll be a part
00:01:22	of a $3.4 billion development
00:01:26	that will generate $1.2
00:01:26	billion in economic activity
00:01:29	each year.
00:01:30	The team wants $600
00:01:30	million in bonds
00:01:33	that would be paid
00:01:33	back by the state from taxes
00:01:35	raised by the project
00:01:35	over 30 years,
00:01:38	but opposition is mounting
00:01:40	based on the state's risk
00:01:40	and the specifics of the deal.
00:01:44	This week, both Cleveland
00:01:44	Mayor Justin Bibb and Cuyahoga
00:01:46	County Executive
00:01:46	Chris Ronayne spoke out.
00:01:49	Bibb blasted the Haslam Sports
00:01:51	Group
00:01:51	for what he called a ploy.
00:01:52	That, quote raises
00:01:52	more questions than answers
00:01:56	and makes wild assumptions
00:01:56	that will crush taxpayers,
00:01:58	end quote.
00:01:59	Ronayne said the group's model
00:01:59	showed average ticket prices
00:02:03	would need to climb to nearly
00:02:03	$800 a ticket over 30 years,
00:02:08	and that every game
00:02:09	and every single parking space
00:02:09	would be sold out.
00:02:12	By the way,
00:02:12	the team went three
00:02:14	and 14 this past year,
00:02:15	but all eight home games
00:02:15	were sellouts, Rooney notes.
00:02:19	Increases in the hotel
00:02:20	and car rental
00:02:20	tax are overly optimistic to,
00:02:23	and will require changes
00:02:23	in state law and Ronayne urged
00:02:27	lawmakers
00:02:27	to do the kind of analysis
00:02:29	they do on other projects
00:02:29	before agreeing to this.
00:02:32	One if the state decides on
00:02:32	our behalf to fully invest in
00:02:36	what was proposed
00:02:36	by the House,
00:02:38	that the Senate does the same,
00:02:41	that's their business.
00:02:42	But there's our business.
00:02:43	And so,
00:02:44	yes, part of the message
00:02:44	today is also to
00:02:45	the state of Ohio
00:02:45	is think about that.
00:02:48	Think about it
00:02:48	because it's the same risk
00:02:49	that you're putting,
00:02:50	state taxpayers in Ohio, too,
00:02:53	as we
00:02:53	are here in Cuyahoga County.
00:02:54	And I'm just not going to put
00:02:55	taxpayers in Cuyahoga County
00:02:55	under that level of risk.
00:02:58	So if the Haslam Sports
00:02:58	Group decides to build
00:03:01	a dome stadium in Brook Park
00:03:01	without county tax dollars,
00:03:05	I still think it's a mistake.
00:03:07	I still think it's a mistake.
00:03:08	But at least
00:03:09	we have held the line on not
00:03:09	putting our taxpayers at risk
00:03:13	Ronen said there is a project
00:03:13	that could be done.
00:03:15	The renovation
00:03:15	of Huntington Bank field,
00:03:18	which was first proposed
00:03:18	by the Browns
00:03:19	with renderings
00:03:19	he said he's seen
00:03:21	and described
00:03:21	as transformational The doable
00:03:25	plan is downtown roughly
00:03:25	half the cost of the Brook
00:03:28	Park expectation,
00:03:28	and that expectation is 50%.
00:03:32	Public expectation.
00:03:35	The Brook
00:03:35	Park plan is too risky.
00:03:37	The Haslam Sports Group
00:03:39	publicly presented a version
00:03:40	of its plan to state lawmakers
00:03:40	last week
00:03:43	to the members of a committee
00:03:43	that's new.
00:03:44	This session,
00:03:45	the House Arts, Athletics
00:03:45	and Tourism Committee,
00:03:48	the 12 page slideshow
00:03:48	and three pages of testimony
00:03:52	featured colorful renderings,
00:03:53	but not many specifics
00:03:53	on where they believe the $2.9
00:03:57	billion in Brown's related
00:03:57	fiscal impact will come from.
00:04:01	Freshman Republican David
00:04:02	Thomas
00:04:02	is a member of that committee,
00:04:04	and said
00:04:04	coming into the presentation,
00:04:05	he was skeptical,
00:04:07	the pictures of this Dome
00:04:07	Stadium project look great.
00:04:10	The idea of a $3.4
00:04:10	billion dome stadium project
00:04:13	with all the surrounding
00:04:14	development
00:04:14	sure sounds exciting.
00:04:16	What do you think of this
00:04:16	proposal?
00:04:18	So I at first very against it.
00:04:20	You know, just the idea
00:04:20	of using government money
00:04:23	for something
00:04:23	that the private sector
00:04:25	should really be in charge of.
00:04:26	Just philosophically,
00:04:26	you know,
00:04:28	I had a lot of questions
00:04:28	and concerns.
00:04:30	I'm also a Steelers fan,
00:04:30	so we'll put that to the side.
00:04:32	Oh, I'm sorry about that.
00:04:33	I know Northeast Ohio.
00:04:35	But once kind of diving into
00:04:35	where are the numbers
00:04:39	and where would the state ask
00:04:39	be coming from?
00:04:43	To me, this actually
00:04:43	makes a lot of sense.
00:04:46	So it's the idea that,
00:04:48	we're not going to be
00:04:48	using general fund money
00:04:50	to give to the Browns to build
00:04:52	this stadium village complex.
00:04:55	Instead,
00:04:55	it would essentially be alone.
00:04:58	It would be paid back
00:04:58	and then some.
00:05:00	As a state with not,
00:05:00	you know, my fellow
00:05:04	Steelers fan tax dollars
00:05:04	from Trumbull County.
00:05:06	It'd be the people
00:05:06	that went to the stadium,
00:05:08	bought a jersey, went and saw
00:05:08	Taylor Swift, a concert.
00:05:12	All the sales tax, the income
00:05:12	tax that's generated there.
00:05:15	They're actually the ones
00:05:15	paying for it.
00:05:16	So it's the perfect
00:05:16	kind of user fee
00:05:19	aspect to helping to complete
00:05:19	the project.
00:05:22	Let's talk a little bit
00:05:22	about those numbers.
00:05:24	Governor Mike DeWine has said
00:05:24	this is a ton of money.
00:05:27	While it's not a direct check.
00:05:28	It is a ton of money,
00:05:28	about $900 million.
00:05:31	The state would be on the hook
00:05:32	for overtime over the 30 year
00:05:32	span of the bonds.
00:05:36	What if the Browns
00:05:36	projections,
00:05:39	like you just said, are wrong?
00:05:40	What have you seen
00:05:40	in the projections
00:05:42	about the breakdown
00:05:42	of revenue,
00:05:44	income taxes, sales tax
00:05:44	and whatever?
00:05:46	That you can say
00:05:47	that you're confident that
00:05:47	their projections are right.
00:05:50	So one aspect of that
00:05:51	is that
00:05:51	they already have a model
00:05:52	right now, which is
00:05:52	the current Browns Stadium.
00:05:55	So if you just keep
00:05:56	that kind of flat, assuming
00:05:56	that the same type of activity
00:05:59	would happen
00:05:59	at this new stadium
00:06:01	versus the current one,
00:06:01	that's a very good baseline.
00:06:04	But we already know
00:06:04	just because of the village
00:06:06	aspect, the residential,
00:06:06	the commercial
00:06:08	on top of more seats
00:06:10	and a ton more events
00:06:10	and opportunities
00:06:12	to bring in money
00:06:12	that at a very baseline,
00:06:15	it's going to be increased
00:06:15	quite a bit.
00:06:17	And even if, like you said,
00:06:17	let's say the Browns continue
00:06:19	not be so good. Taylor
00:06:19	Swift falls out of line.
00:06:22	Whatever happens then there
00:06:22	still is actually seed money
00:06:26	that the Browns have put up
00:06:27	in order
00:06:27	to cover that portion of that
00:06:29	$38 million in upfront cash.
00:06:29	Yes. Yep.
00:06:32	So that I mean, that's
00:06:32	something right there.
00:06:34	And then we'll see.
00:06:34	Kind of
00:06:34	as the economy keeps going.
00:06:36	But,
00:06:37	I actually really
00:06:37	like this idea
00:06:39	just because we know
00:06:39	there will still be activity
00:06:41	when we know
00:06:41	there'll be money coming
00:06:43	in. It's not being taken
00:06:44	from other places
00:06:44	at the state level.
00:06:47	And so it's it's
00:06:47	essentially directly there,
00:06:49	isn't it being taken though
00:06:49	from downtown Cleveland.
00:06:52	So you know what
00:06:52	what Cleveland is
00:06:55	and how they kind of work
00:06:55	it out.
00:06:56	Still saying in Cuyahoga
00:06:56	County,
00:06:58	I can tell you
00:06:58	from my constituents,
00:07:00	it's going
00:07:01	to be actually easier for them
00:07:01	to get to the stadium
00:07:04	than downtown.
00:07:05	I know, talk to folks
00:07:05	in Akron, even Columbus.
00:07:07	So I definitely feel
00:07:07	for the people in downtown
00:07:10	Cleveland right there.
00:07:11	But I've also heard
00:07:13	from the proposals
00:07:13	of what that could look like,
00:07:16	where, you know, investment
00:07:16	could be coming
00:07:18	from where
00:07:18	the current stadium is.
00:07:20	And I think the idea is that
00:07:20	you don't want to,
00:07:22	you know, decrease
00:07:23	any economic activity
00:07:23	in Cleveland moving over here.
00:07:26	Why not move it over here
00:07:26	but also lift this up, too?
00:07:29	There wasn't
00:07:30	a whole lot of information
00:07:30	that was given
00:07:31	in the presentation
00:07:31	that came out before the Ohio
00:07:34	House Arts, Athletics
00:07:34	and Tourism Committee
00:07:37	about where that revenue
00:07:37	breakdown would come from.
00:07:40	Breakdown of sales, income,
00:07:40	other taxes, whatever.
00:07:43	Ted, Ty wine from the Haslam
00:07:43	Sports Group
00:07:45	did say a big
00:07:45	chunk of the jobs
00:07:46	would be hospitality related,
00:07:46	which doesn't
00:07:49	have a whole lot of money
00:07:49	attached to those.
00:07:51	But you ask
00:07:51	a very critical question
00:07:53	here in that committee meeting
00:07:53	is whether take into account
00:07:57	the changes that could happen
00:07:57	to the income tax.
00:07:59	How does that work
00:07:59	in this whole proposal?
00:08:03	Yeah, that
00:08:03	that was one of my first
00:08:03	questions to the Browns folks.
00:08:05	When I first kind of
00:08:06	sat down with them was, hey,
00:08:08	you know, we're looking at
00:08:08	possibly
00:08:08	changing the income tax
00:08:10	the last seven budgets of that
00:08:10	and some tax cuts.
00:08:13	Now, I'm personally
00:08:13	someone that would say that
00:08:15	I think we should be focused
00:08:16	more on the property tax side
00:08:16	than the income tax side,
00:08:18	but that's a whole
00:08:18	nother conversation, too.
00:08:20	So if we do touch
00:08:20	the income tax, yes,
00:08:23	that would be a decrease
00:08:23	in the, you know, revenue
00:08:26	coming directly
00:08:26	from that site.
00:08:28	Now, at the same time,
00:08:29	the folks
00:08:29	that are living there,
00:08:30	the people that are working
00:08:30	there,
00:08:32	there's going to be a variety
00:08:32	as well,
00:08:33	in addition to the stadium
00:08:33	itself.
00:08:36	I think a bulk of the money,
00:08:37	frankly, will come
00:08:37	from the sales
00:08:38	tax side,
00:08:39	just given the activity that's
00:08:39	happening at the stadium.
00:08:42	Frankly,
00:08:42	how expensive things are.
00:08:44	And,
00:08:44	the idea of a ton more events,
00:08:49	concerts, activities that
00:08:49	will happen at the stadium
00:08:52	that will largely drive,
00:08:52	I think, the sales tax side
00:08:55	versus the income tax.
00:08:56	So you think the mix
00:08:56	have you seen a breakdown
00:08:58	of where the mix comes from,
00:08:59	sales, income,
00:08:59	anything like that?
00:09:01	I've not seen the exact mix
00:09:01	of their estimate,
00:09:03	but I know that a bigger
00:09:04	portion from the current
00:09:04	stadium is a sales tax basis.
00:09:08	As a lawmaker,
00:09:08	are you concerned
00:09:10	that you haven't
00:09:10	seen that breakdown yet?
00:09:12	So that's
00:09:12	actually not something
00:09:12	I've asked for a specifically.
00:09:15	So that's a great question.
00:09:16	And I'm sure
00:09:17	I'm sure they would be able
00:09:17	to provide it.
00:09:19	But,
00:09:20	that's kind of
00:09:20	one of the interesting things
00:09:21	too, is we're learning things
00:09:21	obviously, as we go.
00:09:24	But the overall aspect
00:09:24	of comparing the current tax
00:09:28	revenue at the stadium versus
00:09:30	something
00:09:30	that would be much bigger,
00:09:33	you know, I'm pretty confident
00:09:33	in those comparisons.
00:09:35	You asked this hearing
00:09:36	about your constituents
00:09:36	who you've talked about here.
00:09:38	Many of them are Steelers
00:09:38	fans, unfortunately.
00:09:41	But I say
00:09:41	this is a Browns fan.
00:09:44	If the housing the sports
00:09:44	group's projections are wrong,
00:09:47	those folks
00:09:47	could be on the hook for this.
00:09:50	How do you sell this
00:09:50	to these constituents?
00:09:52	Who are not going to be fans
00:09:52	of the stadium, the Browns,
00:09:57	or going to the stadium
00:09:57	to root for the Steelers
00:10:00	when the Browns
00:10:00	and Steelers are playing?
00:10:01	Yeah,
00:10:01	I think that would have to be,
00:10:03	which always happens
00:10:03	and we can budget for that.
00:10:06	It would have to be a true
00:10:06	extreme perfect storm of,
00:10:10	frankly, many COVID's
00:10:11	many opportunities for there
00:10:11	not to be the sales
00:10:14	tax revenue
00:10:14	happening at the stadium.
00:10:17	And I just don't see that
00:10:17	in comparison
00:10:20	to the many other stadiums
00:10:20	that are around,
00:10:22	even compared
00:10:22	to the current stadium, there.
00:10:25	But, you know, let's yeah,
00:10:25	let's say worst case scenario,
00:10:28	nothing is generated
00:10:28	from there.
00:10:30	The state bar of this money
00:10:30	state has to pay it back.
00:10:33	I have to have a feeling
00:10:33	that there will be some type
00:10:36	of negotiation between
00:10:36	the Haslam Sports Group
00:10:39	and the state in terms of.
00:10:41	Yes, we had this agreement,
00:10:43	but you didn't live up to
00:10:43	your portion of the agreement.
00:10:46	We're going to change
00:10:46	some things around.
00:10:48	You were a local official.
00:10:49	You have local officials
00:10:49	in your family.
00:10:51	So you know how important
00:10:51	local support
00:10:53	of something like
00:10:53	this would be.
00:10:54	Is there anything
00:10:54	in this proposal
00:10:56	that says if the local support
00:10:56	isn't there, then the bonds
00:11:00	won't be sold, that
00:11:00	this will this will stop
00:11:02	before the bonds go on.
00:11:03	The market in
00:11:03	the state is on the hook.
00:11:05	So I've not, seen anything
00:11:05	with a specific,
00:11:09	you know,
00:11:09	like referendum, for example.
00:11:11	I think that's largely
00:11:11	because,
00:11:13	you know, your average
00:11:13	taxpayer across the state
00:11:15	won't be actually contributing
00:11:17	to this piece
00:11:17	unless they attend.
00:11:19	And so once I've explained,
00:11:20	kind of walk
00:11:20	through the quick,
00:11:21	you know, 30 or minute
00:11:21	sentence of here's
00:11:24	how they're actually
00:11:24	funding it.
00:11:25	And here's if you wanted
00:11:25	to contribute how you would.
00:11:28	It's almost like crowdfunding.
00:11:29	Then, folks seem
00:11:29	to be actually very happy.
00:11:33	This is a much better
00:11:33	proposal.
00:11:34	Frankly, I almost call it
00:11:34	the best of the worst.
00:11:37	If we're if we're going to do
00:11:38	it, let's just say
00:11:38	we're going to do it.
00:11:40	How do you fund it?
00:11:42	We all agree,
00:11:42	I think at least House
00:11:43	Republicans, that the sports
00:11:43	betting increase was not good.
00:11:47	We all agree
00:11:47	using general fund money.
00:11:50	Not good.
00:11:50	We all agree.
00:11:50	Sales tax increase. Not good.
00:11:53	And so you're actually
00:11:53	taking the money
00:11:55	then from the folks
00:11:55	who are enjoying the stadium
00:11:58	and people by and large
00:11:58	I've had very little actual
00:12:02	pushback to that concept.
00:12:04	Do you expect
00:12:04	that other teams will come
00:12:07	if this goes through,
00:12:07	that you'll have the Bengals
00:12:10	and you'll have other teams
00:12:10	that are going to be coming
00:12:10	forward saying,
00:12:12	hey, we would like to do
00:12:13	the same thing
00:12:13	with state backed bonds.
00:12:15	Oh, well, I'll be honest,
00:12:16	I think this is a super
00:12:16	interesting idea
00:12:19	from just a economic
00:12:19	development perspective.
00:12:22	You know, think of your larger
00:12:22	companies coming into Ohio.
00:12:25	And could we do some type
00:12:25	of it's almost like tipping
00:12:28	the property tax,
00:12:30	but instead it's tipping
00:12:30	the income and the sales tax.
00:12:33	And there could be other
00:12:33	opportunities for just general
00:12:36	economic development
00:12:37	for this type of mechanism
00:12:37	where we're not putting it
00:12:39	on the backs of the property
00:12:39	owners in the area,
00:12:42	but we could actually be
00:12:42	a little bit creative
00:12:45	and use this for your larger
00:12:45	kind of, buildings
00:12:48	construction, you know,
00:12:48	your conglomerate type things.
00:12:51	I'd be shocked
00:12:51	if other sports companies
00:12:53	didn't come in
00:12:54	and ask for something similar,
00:12:54	but the issue with
00:12:56	that would be,
00:12:56	of course, it's a tiff.
00:12:58	And so you're only looking
00:12:58	at the increased value
00:13:01	or in this case,
00:13:01	the increased sales tax,
00:13:03	the increased, income tax
00:13:03	from whatever's happening.
00:13:07	So if the Bengals
00:13:07	were to come in
00:13:08	and say we want the same deal,
00:13:10	they're going
00:13:10	to have to do something
00:13:11	to bring more economic
00:13:13	activity to their stadium,
00:13:13	which is the whole point.
00:13:16	So more activity,
00:13:16	more happening
00:13:18	there, more investment,
00:13:20	more of a tax return,
00:13:20	more going towards that.
00:13:23	And it's safe to say
00:13:23	you're a no.
00:13:25	Then on the governor's
00:13:25	proposed
00:13:28	doubling of his tax on sports
00:13:28	gambling operators
00:13:30	to fund a sports facilities
00:13:30	project fund.
00:13:33	Yes, that's
00:13:33	that's dead on arrival,
00:13:36	cause you
00:13:36	don't want to increase the tax
00:13:38	on these sports
00:13:38	gambling operators. Correct.
00:13:40	So the doubling of the tax
00:13:40	puts us at number
00:13:43	two in the nation for how high
00:13:43	that sports betting taxes.
00:13:47	And there's some issues
00:13:47	with that.
00:13:48	The biggest one being one
00:13:48	that gets paid for somewhere.
00:13:52	And so it gets paid
00:13:52	for through the folks
00:13:54	who are gambling.
00:13:54	They have decreased odds.
00:13:57	They also will have less,
00:13:57	in their accounts
00:14:00	to then sponsor
00:14:02	and support different teams
00:14:02	all across the state too.
00:14:04	So that gets decreased
00:14:04	as well.
00:14:06	And then you also have
00:14:06	the issue,
00:14:07	I think, of the black market
00:14:07	folks who are, I don't but,
00:14:12	who are out there
00:14:13	and who could become
00:14:13	much more prevalent,
00:14:16	which means we lose
00:14:16	even more tax revenue,
00:14:19	if the bigger folks have much
00:14:19	of the higher tax burden.
00:14:23	And finally,
00:14:23	there are people
00:14:23	who are critical of this plan
00:14:25	saying it's just a cash
00:14:25	grab for the houses.
00:14:28	How do you push back on that?
00:14:30	Well, I would say,
00:14:30	but for this plan,
00:14:33	what's what's the alternative?
00:14:34	So they're putting in
00:14:34	they can use their own money.
00:14:37	Well, they could,
00:14:37	but I think they're putting
00:14:37	in, I can't remember
00:14:40	exactly the number
00:14:40	1.2 billion, 1.2 billion.
00:14:42	I was going to say 2.1,
00:14:42	so I flipped it.
00:14:44	So 1.2 billion,
00:14:44	which is already quite a bit
00:14:46	of their own funds.
00:14:47	And yes, they could just like,
00:14:49	frankly, Intel
00:14:50	could have used
00:14:50	their own money or all
00:14:52	these different companies
00:14:52	that are coming to Ohio.
00:14:54	I think one of the reasons
00:14:54	they are in
00:14:55	the Haslam is are willing
00:14:56	to put in all this,
00:14:56	all this amount.
00:14:58	There's there's backing
00:14:59	from the state,
00:14:59	their support there.
00:15:01	And I think the benefit
00:15:01	that we're going to see
00:15:03	from this overarching plan
00:15:06	will not just be for
00:15:06	Clevelander, Cuyahoga County,
00:15:10	but will be
00:15:10	for the entire state.
00:15:11	Also on that
00:15:12	committee is Democrat Terrance
00:15:12	Upchurch, whose district
00:15:15	includes Huntington Bank
00:15:15	field.
00:15:16	And Jimmy and Haslam are also
00:15:16	his constituents.
00:15:20	I asked him about Bibbs
00:15:20	statement,
00:15:22	in which he also said
00:15:23	the project would squander
00:15:23	taxpayer dollars
00:15:25	and is openly violating state
00:15:25	law, that the Haslam refusal
00:15:29	to release their plan publicly
00:15:29	is an affront to taxpayers.
00:15:33	Well, first of all,
00:15:33	I appreciate,
00:15:35	the mayor standing strong and
00:15:35	for his leadership on this.
00:15:39	And I'm going to remain
00:15:40	in lockstep with the mayor,
00:15:40	which is making sure that,
00:15:44	the Browns remain in the city
00:15:44	of Cleveland and that,
00:15:48	what is best for the Cleveland
00:15:48	taxpayers is done.
00:15:51	Now, in terms of the,
00:15:51	$600 million question.
00:15:54	Listen,
00:15:55	there are so many issues
00:15:55	right now
00:15:58	impacting the state of Ohio
00:15:58	that I think,
00:16:01	the legislature should,
00:16:01	prioritize ahead, you know,
00:16:06	of, of this talk of a funding
00:16:06	a new stadium.
00:16:10	There's just so many
00:16:10	other things that I think
00:16:12	need to be discussed
00:16:13	that are more urgent
00:16:13	than, the Browns question.
00:16:17	Let me ask you, quoting again
00:16:19	from Mayor Bibbs statement,
00:16:19	the Haslam scheme
00:16:21	pays for itself
00:16:21	on the backs of fans.
00:16:23	The hassles
00:16:23	need to raise your taxes,
00:16:23	make it more expensive for you
00:16:25	to attend games
00:16:25	and steal events away
00:16:27	from downtown Cleveland
00:16:27	to pay for their stadium.
00:16:29	I'm asking you about this
00:16:29	because in this hearing,
00:16:32	you mentioned that
00:16:33	Huntington Bank
00:16:33	field is in your district.
00:16:35	The Haslam
00:16:35	are your constituents, right?
00:16:37	You ask Ted
00:16:37	Taiwan of a housing sports
00:16:41	group about the impact on fans
00:16:41	and noting that
00:16:43	a lot of your constituents
00:16:43	struggle
00:16:45	to afford games
00:16:45	if they can go at all.
00:16:47	That's right.
00:16:47	Were you satisfied
00:16:49	with the answer
00:16:49	you got? Listen, I think
00:16:52	I think Ted answered
00:16:52	the question the best he could
00:16:55	with the information
00:16:55	that he had. Right.
00:16:56	And, you know, I do believe
00:16:56	that the Browns feel,
00:17:00	sincere, that they are
00:17:00	providing an experience for,
00:17:05	for fans of, different
00:17:05	financial backgrounds.
00:17:08	Right.
00:17:08	But at the same time,
00:17:12	like I said, my constituents,
00:17:12	many of my constituents
00:17:15	who are Browns fans,
00:17:16	who want to take their kids
00:17:16	to those games on Sunday,
00:17:20	you know, not only struggle
00:17:20	to afford tickets,
00:17:22	but struggle for concessions.
00:17:24	And like I said,
00:17:24	I got to imagine
00:17:25	with building such a,
00:17:25	expensive stadium like this
00:17:30	that, you know,
00:17:30	the price of tickets
00:17:32	and the prices of concessions
00:17:32	would be impacted.
00:17:35	And my concern is how
00:17:35	that impact is going to look
00:17:38	or how that impact
00:17:38	is going to be felt
00:17:40	on my constituents,
00:17:41	who are still, again,
00:17:41	going to those games,
00:17:43	whether they're on
00:17:43	the lakefront
00:17:45	or, God forbid, in Brook Park.
00:17:47	And you know, when you ask
00:17:47	that question of Ted Taiwan,
00:17:50	he did say that
00:17:50	there will be 2500 standing
00:17:52	room only seats offered,
00:17:52	but he did not mention
00:17:54	that there would be any lower
00:17:54	ticket prices
00:17:56	or any more available tickets
00:17:56	in a lower price point.
00:17:59	Yeah,
00:17:59	so so with that, obviously
00:18:01	there's a ton of concerns
00:18:01	I have, right?
00:18:03	Because even still, if,
00:18:03	you know,
00:18:06	if I'm working hard to,
00:18:06	to afford,
00:18:08	a ticket to a game
00:18:08	at this new stadium,
00:18:11	the best that that can be done
00:18:11	is standing.
00:18:13	So I got to stand
00:18:13	for four hours
00:18:14	with my grandfather.
00:18:15	And, you know,
00:18:15	I have knee issues
00:18:17	or back issues or whatever.
00:18:18	So that's what you're
00:18:18	telling me.
00:18:20	You know,
00:18:20	I just
00:18:20	I think there's a lot of
00:18:21	things
00:18:21	that, can be addressed.
00:18:24	There's a lot of unanswered
00:18:24	questions.
00:18:26	And, you know, this is one of
00:18:26	those unanswered questions.
00:18:30	You know, Ted, tell long
00:18:30	is a very good friend of mine.
00:18:33	Okay. He's got a job to do.
00:18:35	I respect that.
00:18:35	We'll still
00:18:35	be friends after this. But,
00:18:39	there's
00:18:39	more that I need to see.
00:18:41	And that.
00:18:41	And there's more that's need
00:18:41	that needs to be done
00:18:43	to convince me,
00:18:43	that this is the right move.
00:18:47	Speaking of that,
00:18:48	there were some financial
00:18:48	projections that were offered,
00:18:50	and there were the questions.
00:18:52	Ask them, where is the revenue
00:18:52	that's going to pay back
00:18:56	the state for these bonds?
00:18:57	Where is it
00:18:57	going to come from?
00:18:58	Are you concerned?
00:18:59	You know, ticket prices,
00:18:59	income taxes, sales taxes?
00:19:02	I mean,
00:19:02	do you have a real
00:19:03	sense of where that money
00:19:03	that is going to be generated
00:19:06	to pay
00:19:06	the state back is coming from?
00:19:08	I'm absolutely concerned
00:19:08	about it.
00:19:10	And I'm even more concerned
00:19:11	that the state is still going
00:19:11	to be left on the hook.
00:19:13	Right.
00:19:13	Like I said, there's a
00:19:14	there's
00:19:14	a lot of unanswered questions
00:19:16	and a lot of concerns
00:19:16	that I have
00:19:18	about
00:19:18	this particular decision.
00:19:20	And, you know,
00:19:20	I think that this is
00:19:23	something that we don't need
00:19:23	to, fast track.
00:19:27	You know,
00:19:27	I would love for the Browns
00:19:28	to go back
00:19:29	and continue to talk,
00:19:29	you know,
00:19:30	with Mayor Bibb and County
00:19:30	Executive Chris Roney.
00:19:33	Right.
00:19:33	But I, I'm just not in
00:19:33	a place to support, you know,
00:19:39	the $600 million bonds.
00:19:41	I'm just not there yet.
00:19:43	Do you get the sense
00:19:43	that this is on a fast track?
00:19:45	I mean,
00:19:45	you heard the presentation.
00:19:47	There's been talk about
00:19:48	putting it in the budget
00:19:49	and maybe even removing
00:19:49	the sports facilities
00:19:51	fund that, governor
00:19:51	Mike Weiner proposed.
00:19:54	It's hard to tell.
00:19:55	It's hard to tell
00:19:55	whether that this is,
00:19:58	high priority for the
00:19:58	leadership, in the House.
00:20:02	In the Senate?
00:20:03	It's hard to tell.
00:20:03	This is being fast tracked.
00:20:05	But it does
00:20:05	seem as if the wheels of this,
00:20:08	it does seem as if this train
00:20:08	has left the station
00:20:11	right now.
00:20:12	How far down the track it is.
00:20:14	You know,
00:20:14	that's yet to be seen.
00:20:16	You also asking that committee
00:20:17	hearing
00:20:17	about infrastructure costs,
00:20:19	which the
00:20:19	Haslam Sports Group says
00:20:19	should be 57 to $73 million.
00:20:23	But that's not included in
00:20:23	this, is it?
00:20:25	I mean, that wouldn't be money
00:20:25	that they would
00:20:26	potentially
00:20:26	have to come back and ask for.
00:20:29	That's right.
00:20:30	Which I think,
00:20:31	you know, leads us down
00:20:31	another rabbit hole, right.
00:20:34	Because again,
00:20:34	I don't want surrounding areas
00:20:38	and, you know, other
00:20:38	local governments
00:20:39	to be left on the hook
00:20:39	for these infrastructure costs
00:20:42	that we know are going
00:20:42	to, you know, build
00:20:45	every brown fan
00:20:45	over a certain age
00:20:48	remembers
00:20:48	the shot in the heart.
00:20:50	It was when the team left
00:20:50	Cleveland for Baltimore.
00:20:53	Sure.
00:20:53	The desire to keep the Browns
00:20:53	in Northeast Ohio burns
00:20:57	very strongly.
00:20:58	And most Browns fans, and then
00:20:58	a lot of Ohioans in general,
00:21:02	this has in sports
00:21:03	group said in this committee
00:21:03	hearing that
00:21:04	the Haslam will never leave
00:21:04	Northeast Ohio.
00:21:07	Do you think the state
00:21:09	are you concerned about
00:21:10	the state
00:21:10	not holding them to that
00:21:12	if this bond package
00:21:12	goes through?
00:21:14	I am concerned. And,
00:21:18	you know, this is
00:21:18	one of the things that I worry
00:21:20	about being the, rock
00:21:22	that goes into the pond,
00:21:22	that causes a ripple. Right?
00:21:24	Because we have more than just
00:21:26	the three major sports
00:21:26	teams in Cleveland.
00:21:27	We have major sports teams
00:21:29	that are
00:21:29	all throughout the state.
00:21:31	And if we're setting
00:21:31	this kind of precedent, it's
00:21:33	just a matter of time before
00:21:34	another sports
00:21:34	team comes to the table.
00:21:36	And we have to make tough
00:21:36	decisions and choose between,
00:21:39	funding
00:21:39	these sorts of projects
00:21:40	or funding public schools.
00:21:43	One of the other questions
00:21:43	that was asked at the hearing
00:21:44	by ranking member Dante
00:21:44	Fitzgerald was about the move,
00:21:48	the shift of economic impact
00:21:48	from downtown,
00:21:51	where you represent,
00:21:51	to Brook Park and the project
00:21:56	asking the question,
00:21:56	will the project generate
00:21:57	anything new,
00:21:57	or will it just be
00:21:59	taking things
00:21:59	from the downtown area and
00:22:04	to Taiwan side?
00:22:05	It's that cannibalization,
00:22:05	as he called it.
00:22:07	It would be disrespectful
00:22:08	to what's happening
00:22:08	in downtown
00:22:09	Cleveland to assume that
00:22:09	that would happen.
00:22:11	Great things are happening
00:22:11	in downtown.
00:22:13	This will be another
00:22:13	great thing. Why?
00:22:15	Why don't you believe that
00:22:15	this would?
00:22:17	Or do you believe that
00:22:17	this would be another
00:22:19	great thing?
00:22:20	Listen, I, I,
00:22:20	take Ted for his word that the
00:22:24	the Haslam sports group and
00:22:26	the Browns are not interested
00:22:26	in decimating downtown
00:22:29	or negatively impacting
00:22:29	downtown by this move.
00:22:33	My concern is that even though
00:22:33	that that's not what
00:22:35	their intentions are, that it
00:22:35	it may just happen.
00:22:37	Because at the end of the day,
00:22:39	we're not just talking about
00:22:40	a stadium
00:22:40	that they're looking to build.
00:22:42	I mean, it's a whole ecosystem
00:22:42	around that stadium
00:22:44	with hotels, bars,
00:22:44	restaurants,
00:22:46	all the amenities and things
00:22:46	that,
00:22:48	you know,
00:22:49	we have downtown that we as
00:22:49	a city are proud of for sports
00:22:52	fans essentially will be built
00:22:52	outside of Cleveland.
00:22:55	And I think
00:22:56	that will drive competition,
00:22:56	which could be detrimental to,
00:23:00	you know, downtown
00:23:00	Cleveland cause,
00:23:02	you know, the same type of,
00:23:02	situation is generated with,
00:23:06	you know, Cavs games
00:23:06	or Guardians games.
00:23:07	You know, people utilize
00:23:08	our downtown restaurants,
00:23:08	our bars, our hotels,
00:23:12	all the things that we as
00:23:13	a city have provided
00:23:13	to enhance the fan experience.
00:23:17	The pictures that have come
00:23:17	out of the project
00:23:19	look really great.
00:23:20	They're beautiful.
00:23:20	They're absolutely beautiful.
00:23:22	The stadiums
00:23:22	beautiful, everything.
00:23:23	I love everything I've seen,
00:23:23	so it's easy to get excited.
00:23:26	It's very easy to get excited.
00:23:26	I love it.
00:23:28	I just don't want it in
00:23:28	Brook Park.
00:23:30	I want it in Cleveland
00:23:31	and I don't think I'm
00:23:31	wrong for that.
00:23:33	I know how valuable,
00:23:34	you know,
00:23:35	our sports
00:23:35	teams are to our city,
00:23:37	their economic driver,
00:23:37	which help us invest
00:23:39	back into our communities
00:23:39	and our people.
00:23:42	But the reality is, is
00:23:42	if this thing goes through,
00:23:44	there's going
00:23:44	to be more impact on the city.
00:23:46	Again,
00:23:46	the city is going to be faced
00:23:48	to do more with less
00:23:48	and make some tough decisions.
00:23:51	I mean, just
00:23:51	look at the budget.
00:23:53	I'm sure there's
00:23:53	going to be more cuts
00:23:55	to local government funding.
00:23:56	So yet again,
00:23:57	you know, they're going to be
00:23:57	faced to do more with less.
00:23:59	And Cleveland is a city built
00:23:59	for a million plus people.
00:24:02	We have a population just
00:24:02	slightly north of 300,000.
00:24:06	Would you support a project
00:24:06	like this or a bond package
00:24:09	like this
00:24:09	for downtown
00:24:10	for renovation
00:24:10	of existing stadium,
00:24:12	or is that completely off
00:24:12	the table?
00:24:13	I would support.
00:24:14	I would support renovation
00:24:16	or investment
00:24:16	for a project downtown.
00:24:18	Do you think that's
00:24:18	a possibility at this point?
00:24:19	I hope it still is.
00:24:20	I have to do my job to
00:24:22	to make sure that that's
00:24:22	still a possibility.
00:24:24	And that
00:24:24	and I'm going to do my job
00:24:26	to stay in lockstep
00:24:26	with the mayor
00:24:28	and the county executive.
00:24:30	We've been in constant
00:24:30	communication,
00:24:31	and my job is to advocate for
00:24:31	them down here in Columbus.
00:24:35	Governor Mike
00:24:36	DeWine is not saying directly
00:24:36	that he's opposed
00:24:38	or supportive
00:24:38	of the bond package,
00:24:40	but he did say he has serious
00:24:40	concerns.
00:24:42	that bond of 600 million
00:24:42	that would generate
00:24:45	600 million will cost over
00:24:45	$900 million.
00:24:49	Every penny of that
00:24:49	will come out
00:24:53	general fund dollars in the
00:24:53	future to pay the bond down.
00:24:57	That is a
00:24:57	ton of money
00:24:57	to be taken out of our budget.
00:25:02	That we need to spend money
00:25:02	on schools, that
00:25:05	we need to spend money, on,
00:25:08	mental health challenges.
00:25:11	We have a lot of things
00:25:11	that we,
00:25:12	we need to focus on
00:25:12	in this state.
00:25:15	House
00:25:15	Republicans have not released
00:25:16	their version of the budget,
00:25:16	but it's unlikely
00:25:18	that DeWine's proposed
00:25:18	tax increases
00:25:21	on cigarets,
00:25:21	marijuana and sports
00:25:22	gambling operators will be
00:25:22	included.
00:25:25	It's also unclear
00:25:25	whether the bond package
00:25:27	will be
00:25:27	added to the budget, either.
00:25:29	And that is it for this week
00:25:29	for my colleagues
00:25:31	at the Statehouse News
00:25:31	Bureau of Ohio Public Media.
00:25:33	Thanks for watching.
00:25:34	Please check out our website
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Note : Transcripts are compiled from uncorrected captions