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00:00:01>> SUPPORT FOR THE STATEWIDE
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00:00:14AND FROM THE OHIO EDUCATION
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00:00:16120,000 MEMBERS, WHO WORK TO
INSPIRE THEIR STUDENTS TO THINK
00:00:19CREATIVELY AND EXPERIENCE THE
JOY OF LEARNING.
00:00:29ONLINE AT OHEA.ORG.
KAREN: THE PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN
00:00:34SEASON SOMETIMES SEEMS LIKE A
HOLIDAY FOR POLITICAL JUNKIES.
00:00:38I WILL SPEAK TO THE AUTHORS OF
TWO BOOKS THIS WEEK ON THE STATE
00:00:44OF OHIO.
OHIO IS THE CENTER OF
00:00:56PRESIDENTIAL POLITICS EACH YEAR
FOR GOOD REASONS THAT HAVE BEEN
00:01:00CAREFULLY AND THOUGHTFULLY
DOCUMENTED.
00:01:05EIGHT PRESIDENTS HAVE CALLED
OHIO HOME.
00:01:08ONE WAS WILLIAM MCKINLEY.
HE WAS ELECTED IN 1896 AND
00:01:13SERVED UNTIL 19 OH ONE WHEN HE
WAS ASSASSINATED.
00:01:17THE 1896 ELECTION IS CONSIDERED
A PIVOTAL ONE IN AMERICAN
00:01:22HISTORY.
THE ELECTION HAS BEEN CHRONICLED
00:01:26IN MANY BOOKS, THE MOST RECENT
OF WHICH IS "THE TRIALS OF
00:01:30WILLIAM MCKINLEY, WHY THE
ELECTION OF 1896 STILL MATTERS"
00:01:36WRITTEN BY NONE OTHER THAN KARL
ROVE, THE PROMINENT CONSERVATIVE
00:01:42WHO IS CONSIDERED THE ARCHITECT
BEHIND GEORGE BUSH'S VICTORIES
00:01:45IN 2000 AND 2004.
I SPOKE TO KARL ROVE ABOUT THE
00:01:54CURRENT PRESIDENTIAL RACE AND
WHAT HE THINKS OF GOVERNOR JOHN
00:01:57KASICH CHANCES.
KARL ROVE: IT DEPENDS ON NEW
00:02:01HAMPSHIRE.
HE HAS PUT ALL OF HIS CHIPS ON
00:02:04THE TABLE.
THE GOOD NEWS IS, IT WORKED OUT
00:02:15FOR JOHN MCCAIN.
THE QUESTION IS, IN THIS CROWDED
00:02:18FIELD, CAN HE DO THAT?
KAREN: HE HAS BEEN POLLING FOR A
00:02:252-D LOW.
KARL ROVE: THIS IS ABOUT GETTING
00:02:34THROUGH TO THE PEOPLE IN NEW
HAMPSHIRE AND SAYING THIS IS THE
00:02:36GUY WE WANT.
AND THERE IS PLENTY OF TIME TO
00:02:40MAKE THAT HAPPEN.
JOHN MCCAIN WAS NOT POLLING WELL
00:02:43AT THIS POINT IN 2000.
PEOPLE COME FROM NOWHERE.
00:02:49WITNESS RICK SANTORUM.
THESE EARLY STATES MAKE A
00:02:54DIFFERENCE.
THEY WANT TO SEE EVERYBODY FOR
00:02:57AS LONG AS POSSIBLE, AND A THIRD
OF THE VOTERS WILL LITERALLY
00:03:00MAKE UP THEIR MINDS IN THE FINAL
WEEKS.
00:03:02KAREN: IS THERE ANY CONCERN THAT
HE IS GOING TO DO SOMETHING TO
00:03:14UPSET TO VOTERS?
KARL ROVE: PARTICULARLY IN EARLY
00:03:18STATES WHERE THEY ARE USED TO
SEEING CANDIDATES A LOT, THEY
00:03:23ARE A LOT MORE FORGIVING THAN
YOU MIGHT THINK.
00:03:24THEY ARE FORGIVING AND THEY
UNDERSTAND THE CANDIDATES ARE
00:03:32PEOPLE AND THAT PEOPLE ARE
FALLIBLE AND MAY MAKE A MISTAKE.
00:03:39THEY MAY HAVE A BAD DAY.
THEY ARE LOOKING FOR PEOPLE THAT
00:03:42HAVE THE ABILITY TO GO THE
DISTANCE.
00:03:46THAT IS WHY IT IS SUCH A
GRUESOME CONTEST.
00:03:49YOU HAVE TO WORK HARD FOR A LONG
TIME.
00:03:52KAREN: ARE PEOPLE FORGIVING
ENOUGH TO LET DONALD TRUMP WIN
00:03:57AND WHAT HAPPENS IF HE IS THE
NOMINEE AT THE CONVENTION?
00:04:01KARL ROVE: HE HAS DONE SO MUCH
ALONG THE WAY THAT HE HAS
00:04:04CREATED A HIGH FLOOR.
THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO LIKE THAT
00:04:09HE SAYS THE POLITICALLY
INCORRECT THINGS.
00:04:12BUT THERE IS A LOW CEILING.
A RECENT POLL SAID ALMOST AS
00:04:20MANY PEOPLE SAID THERE IS NO WAY
THEY WILL VOTE FOR HIM.
00:04:22HE HAS TO COURT PEOPLE.
WITH EACH ONE OF THESE
00:04:27OUTRAGEOUS THINGS HE SAYS AND
DOES, MOCKING A DISABLED
00:04:31REPORTER, ATTACKING AND
INSULTING JOHN MCCAIN FOR HAVING
00:04:35BEEN A POW, INSULTING MEGAN
KELLY, SAYING THESE WEIRD THINGS
00:04:39HE SAYS ABOUT POLICY, WE DON'T
NEED TO WORRY ABOUT ISIS, LEAVE
00:04:46THEM TO THE RUSSIANS.
AND ONCE THEY HAVE STRUCK PARIS,
00:04:51WE ARE GOING TO BOMB THE
EXPLETIVE OUT OF ISIS.
00:04:54THE PEOPLE WHO SUPPORT HIM DON'T
CARE ABOUT HIS RECORD OF
00:04:59SUPPORTING NANCY PELOSI OR TED
KENNEDY AND CALLING FOR THE
00:05:04IMPEACHMENT OF GEORGE W. BUSH.
THEY DON'T CARE, BUT THE REST OF
00:05:07THE PARTY DOES.
HE IS GENERALLY IN THE MID TO
00:05:10HIGH 20'S, BUT HE CANNOT GET ANY
HIGHER.
00:05:18KAREN: IT SEEMS LIKE VOTERS ARE
LOOKING FOR SOMEONE WHO IS NOT A
00:05:25WASHINGTON INSIDER.
DOES GOVERNOR KASICH HAVE A
00:05:27CHANCE?
KARL ROVE: BE CAREFUL ABOUT
00:05:31MAKING SUCH A BROAD STATEMENT.
DONALD TRUMP RECOMMENDS NOT
00:05:37BEING IN POLITICS AT ALL.
PEOPLE LUMP BEN CARSON AND WITH
00:05:43HIM.
HE HAS GENUINE APPEAL.
00:05:45HE IS A MAN OF GENUINE FAITH WHO
DRAWS OTHER PEOPLE OF FAITH TO
00:05:49HIM.
AGAIN, TAKE A LOOK AT THE POLLS.
00:05:53MATCHED UP AGAINST HILLARY
CLINTON, PEOPLE THINK BY A
00:05:58MARGIN OF 60-30 THAT SHE HAS THE
RIGHT EXPERIENCE TO BE
00:06:02PRESIDENT.
IT IS THE OPPOSITE FOR HIM.
00:06:06ONLY ABOUT A THIRD OF AMERICAN
VOTERS THINKS HE -- THINK HE HAS
00:06:08THE EXPERIENCE NECESSARY TO BE
PRESIDENT.
00:06:13HE WILL NOT BE THE NOMINEE OF
THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.
00:06:15KAREN: AND IF HE IS?
KARL ROVE: HE HAS A VERY UPHILL
00:06:21BATTLE.
AMONG WOMEN, HE IS UPSIDE DOWN.
00:06:26HE HAS A 9% APPROVAL RATING
AMONG LATINOS.
00:06:28WE LOST WHEN WE HAD A 27% VOTE
FOR MITT ROMNEY AMONG LATINOS.
00:06:35MITT ROMNEY OFFSET THAT TO SOME
DEGREE, NOT ENOUGH TO WIN, BUT
00:06:39OFFSET IT TO SOME DEGREE BY
RUNNING UP A 20 POINT MARGIN
00:06:43AMONG WHITE VOTERS.
DONALD TRUMP LEADS HILLARY
00:06:49CLINTON AMONG WHITE VOTERS BY 12
POINTS WHICH IS WHY HE IS THE
00:06:52ONLY REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE THAT
LOSES TO HILLARY.
00:06:55AND THAT'S BEFORE THEY GO AFTER
HIS FOUR BANKRUPTCIES AND HIS
00:07:02OUTRAGEOUS COMMENTS ABOUT WOMEN
AND HIS UNBELIEVABLY CHECKERED
00:07:05PAST.
KAREN: I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT
00:07:11YOUR BOOK.
OHIOANS ARE FAMILIAR WITH
00:07:14WILLIAM MCKINLEY BECAUSE HE CAME
FROM HERE.
00:07:15WHAT CAN YOU TELL ME ABOUT THE
BOOK?
00:07:18KARL ROVE: THEY MAY THINK THEY
KNOW HIM, BUT I THINK THEY WILL
00:07:21FIND OUT THAT HE HAS A
ROLLICKING TALE THAT INVOLVE
00:07:29SEX, VIOLENCE, BACKSTABBING,
FRAUD, DISSES -- DECEPTION, AND
00:07:35UNBELIEVABLY COOL NICKNAMES.
HE'S THE TYPE OF PERSON WE NEED
00:07:38TO BRING BACK.
THIS WAS A REMARKABLE MAN.
00:07:42THIS IS LIKE A WILD HOLLYWOOD
MOVIE WHERE YOU COULD CAST JIMMY
00:07:45STEWART AS THE LEADING MAN.
IT'S A WILD TALE.
00:07:49I HOPE THAT POLITICAL JUNKIES
AND HISTORY BUFFS WILL READ THE
00:07:53BOOK.
I HAD A LOT OF FUN WRITING IT
00:07:56AND I HOPE IT SHOWS.
KAREN: WHAT BROUGHT YOU TO
00:07:59WILLIAM MCKINLEY?
DO YOU HAVE A CONNECTION TO HIM?
00:08:03KARL ROVE: I WAS TAKING A COURSE
IN MY MID-40'S, AND IT WAS A
00:08:15SEMINAR ON HISTORICAL SOURCE
RATING.
00:08:16MY PROFESSOR SAID I WILL TAKE
YOU ON FOR THIS CLASS BUT YOU
00:08:23HAVE TO READ THE MCKINLEY PAPERS
BECAUSE HISTORY GETS MCKINLEY
00:08:26WRONG AND THE ELECTION OF 1890
SIX RUN.
00:08:28I STUMBLED INTO IT A BECAME
OBSESSED.
00:08:29-- 1896 WRONG.
I STUMBLED INTO IT AND BECAME
00:08:35OBSESSED.
I HAVE SPENT MORE TIME IN
00:08:43LIBRARIES FROM CHICAGO TO BOSTON
AND REALLY ENJOYED IT.
00:08:47WHAT KIND OF FORCES WERE
PRESENT, IMPERSONAL FORCES WERE
00:08:55WORKING THEIR WAY THROUGH OUR
CULTURE AND SOCIETY?
00:08:56THERE ARE FIVE GREAT REALIGNING
ELECTIONS IN AMERICAN HISTORY.
00:09:021896 IS ONE OF THEM.
BUT WE DON'T TALK ABOUT THE
00:09:08INNER.
1800, THOMAS JEFFERSON, ANDREW
00:09:12JACKSON, FDR, BUT THE 1896
ELECTION, HISTORIANS TALK ABOUT
00:09:20WILLIAM JENNINGS BRYAN, THE GUY
WHO LOST.
00:09:22WE KNOW ABOUT THEODORE
ROOSEVELT, THE GUY WHO SUCCEEDS
00:09:31MCKINLEY UPON HIS ASSASSINATION.
WHAT WE DON'T KNOW ABOUT IS THIS
00:09:33CHARACTER WHO LITERALLY CHANGED
AMERICAN POLITICS AND BROUGHT
00:09:38ABOUT 40 YEARS OF REPUBLICAN
DOMINANCE.
00:09:43KAREN: ROVE ISN'T DIRECTLY
INVOLVED WITH ANY OF THE
00:09:45REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES FOR
PRESIDENT RIGHT NOW, BUT HIS
00:09:47SUPERPAC CROSSROADS GPS IS
ALREADY VERY ACTIVE IN THE 2016
00:09:49CAMPAIGNS FOR US SENATE.
IT'S SPENT $6 MILLION IN STATES
00:09:50THAT REPUBLICANS FEEL ARE
"PURPLE" AND COULD GO TO EITHER
00:09:52PARTY, INCLUDING INCUMBENT
-- INCLUDING OHIO, WHERE
00:09:58INCUMBENT REPUBLICAN SENATOR ROB
PORTMAN WILL FACE THE WINNER OF
00:10:07THE DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY - EITHER
FORMER GOVERNOR TED STRICKLAND
00:10:12OR CINCINNATI CITY COUNCILMAN PG
SITTENFELD.
00:10:14THE 2016 PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN
HAS BEEN THE GIFT THAT KEEPS ON
00:10:16GIVING FOR COMEDY WRITERS,
SATIRISTS, EDITORIAL CARTOONISTS
00:10:18AND OF COURSE POLITICAL
JOURNALISTS.
00:10:20THE ENDLESS CYCLE OF RALLIES,
SIT DOWN INTERVIEWS, SOUND
00:10:23BITES, VIRAL VIDEOS, ANGRY
E-MAILS AND TWEETS, AND ALL THE
00:10:25THINGS WE'VE COME TO KNOW AND
LOVE ABOUT COVERING THE
00:10:27CANDIDATES FOR PRESIDENT IN A
KEY SWING STATE ARE UPON US.
00:10:29AND FOR THOSE WHO DON'T KNOW
WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT - AND FOR
00:10:33THOSE WHO DO - THERE'S A BOOK
FOR THAT.
00:10:35IT'S CALLED "FRONT ROW SEAT AT
THE CIRCUS: ONE JOURNALIST'S
00:10:37JOURNEY THROUGH TWO PRESIDENTIAL
ELECTIONS".
00:10:39THAT JOURNALIST IS EMMY AWARD
WINNING FORMER OHIO JOURNALIST
00:10:41JIM HEATH, WHO WORKED IN SOUTH
CAROLINA BEFORE COMING TO OHIO,
00:10:42SO HE'S SEEN POLITICS BOTH NORTH
AND SOUTH.
00:10:44HE WROTE THIS BOOK FROM ARIZONA,
WHERE HE NOW LIVES, AND I'M SO
00:10:46PLEASED TO WELCOME HIM TO THE
SHOW.
00:10:54WHILE HE IS A GREAT FRIEND, I
HATE HIM FOR FLYING WITH THE US
00:10:56AIR FORCE THUNDERBIRDS, WHICH IS
IN THIS BOOK.
00:10:58BUT I'M PLEASED TO WELCOME HIM
TO THE SHOW.
00:11:01>> YOU HAVE HELD A GRUDGE ABOUT
THAT YOUR WHOLE LIFE.
00:11:06KAREN: I AM JEALOUS.
I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE BOOK,
00:11:14OF COURSE.
TELL US, NOW THAT YOU HAVE BEEN
00:11:16FREED FROM THE POLITICAL
JOURNALIST SHACKLES AND CAN BE
00:11:19MORE OF AN ANALYST, I WANT TO
ASK ABOUT THIS.
00:11:26YOU WROTE A LOT OF THE BOOK
BEFORE THE 2016 CAMPAIGNS ARE
00:11:32GOING.
LET'S TALK ABOUT DONALD TRUMP.
00:11:34HE'S ON THE COVER HOLDING HOT
AND CANDY.
00:11:39WHAT YOUR THOUGHTS ON HIM?
>> FIRST, I THOUGHT IT REALLY
00:11:42MINIMIZED ALL OF US, THOSE OF US
WHO COVER POLITICS AND THOSE OF
00:11:48US RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT OF THE
UNITED STATES.
00:11:50THEN I STARTED THINKING WELL,
MAYBE HE'S BRINGING INTEREST IN
00:11:52THIS THING TO PEOPLE WHO
NORMALLY WOULDN'T BE PAYING
00:11:55ATTENTION TO A PRESIDENTIAL
CONTEST THIS EARLY.
00:11:57BUT AS TIME HAS GONE ON AND THE
COMMENTS HAVE BECOME MORE
00:12:02OUTRAGEOUS, I EQUATE HIM TO THE
DRUNK UNCLE AT A WEDDING OR
00:12:06THANKSGIVING.
YOU INVITE HIM.
00:12:09YOU KNOW YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE
AWKWARD THINGS HAPPENING.
00:12:11BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY,
YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GO TO THE
00:12:16POLLS AND VOTE FOR THIS GUY.
AT THE END OF THE DAY, I THINK
00:12:20THAT WILL BE THE CASE HERE.
DONALD TRUMP CAN SAY THIS GUY IS
00:12:23GREEN AND THE OCEAN IS PURPLE
AND PEOPLE CAN CHEER, BUT I
00:12:26THINK AT THE END OF THE DAY,
WHEN PEOPLE VOTE IN OHIO, NEW
00:12:31HAMPSHIRE, SOUTH CAROLINA, MY
GUESS IS THERE IS NOT A LOT
00:12:35THERE.
THERE IS SOME THERE, BUT NOT
00:12:38ENOUGH OF A MAJORITY TO GET HIM
TO THE NOMINATION.
00:12:40I COULD BE WRONG, BUT THAT IS MY
GUT INSTINCT AT THIS POINT.
00:12:43KAREN: YOU TALK ABOUT ROSS PEROT
BEING A FORCE WHO DREW PEOPLE TO
00:12:49THE ELECTION, BUT YOU SEE HOW
THAT WORKED OUT A ROSS PEROT.
00:12:53SARAH PALIN GOT PEOPLE FIRED UP
AND THINKING.
00:12:55WE SAW HOW THAT WORKED OUT FOR
HER.
00:12:59D THINK TRUMP COULD BE LIKE
THAT?
00:13:00>> I DON'T SEE HOW HE IS A NET
GAIN FOR THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.
00:13:07I REALLY DON'T.
I THINK HE HAS LEGITIMIZED
00:13:15VOICES ON THE REPUBLICAN STAGE.
YOU HAVE PEOPLE LIKE RAND PAUL
00:13:20AND TED CRUZ, AND THEN YOU HAVE
JEB BUSH AND MARCO RUBIO, WHO
00:13:24ARE MORE TRADITIONAL.
IT'S A LEGITIMATE DEBATE THESE
00:13:28CANDIDATES SHOULD BE HAVING, BUT
WHEN YOU PUT TRUMP IN THE MIDDLE
00:13:34OF IT, IT BECOMES A CIRCUS.
IT BECOMES A SIDESHOW.
00:13:42OUTRAGEOUS THINGS THAT ARE NOT
FACTUAL SUCK ALL THE OXYGEN OUT
00:13:43OF WHAT EVERYONE ELSE IS SAYING.
I DON'T SEE HOW TRUMP IS A
00:13:50POSITIVE IN ANY WAY WHEN THIS IS
ALL OVER FOR THE REPUBLICAN
00:13:52PARTY.
KAREN: I WANT TO TALK ABOUT SOME
00:13:58OF THE MAIN CHARACTERS IN THE
BOOK.
00:13:59YOU WRITE A LOT ABOUT JOHN
KASICH, OBVIOUSLY.
00:14:02YOU WRITE THAT NOT ALL
CANDIDATES ARE CREATED EQUAL.
00:14:09YOU START OUT WITH LITTLE
TRACTION, LITTLE FUNDRAISING
00:14:13ABILITY, YOU'RE UNLIKELY TO BE
SUCCESSFUL.
00:14:18TO SET APPLY TO KASICH?
>> I THINK IT COULD.
00:14:21I THINK LOOKING AT LESSER
CANDIDATES LIKE HUCKABEE OR
00:14:26SANTORUM, I MEAN, JOHN KASICH IS
THE GOVERNOR OF A STATE
00:14:30REPUBLICANS HAVE NEEDED SINCE
THE 1800S TO WIN IN ORDER TO BE
00:14:35PRESIDENT.
I DON'T THINK IT NECESSARILY
00:14:38APPLIES TO KASICH IN THIS CASE,
BUT CERTAINLY OTHER CANDIDATES,
00:14:43I MENTIONED SANTORUM COMING OUT
OF NOWHERE TO BE THE ALTERNATIVE
00:14:48ESTABLISHMENT CANDIDATE IN 2012.
NOBODY THOUGHT HE WOULD DO AS
00:14:51WELL IN IOWA.
MITT ROMNEY ONLY ONE OHIO ON
00:15:00SUPER TUESDAY BY ONE -- ONLY WON
OHIO ON SUPER TUESDAY BY ONE
00:15:06POINT.
IF SANTORUM HAD PULLED OFF AN
00:15:08OHIO VICTORY, THAT ELECTION
COULD HAVE BEEN VERY DIFFERENT.
00:15:11KAREN: YOU WRITE ABOUT BEING IN
THE CENTER AND PARTISAN POLITICS
00:15:19BEING RESPONSIBLE FOR EVERYTHING
THAT HAS EVER GONE WRONG IN
00:15:22AMERICA.
COULD THAT BE PART OF KASICH'S
00:15:25PROBLEM?
>> I THINK YOU COULD LOOK AT IT
00:15:29IN BOTH DIRECTIONS.
IT COULD BE BECAUSE KASICH HAS
00:15:33STAKED OUT A CENTRIST ROLE HERE.
CERTAINLY, IN SUPPORT OF COMMON
00:15:38CORE, MEDICAID EXPANSION, THOSE
WOULD MOVE HIM MORE TO THE
00:15:43CENTER OF THE FIELD.
THE FLIP SIDE IS WHERE DOES HE
00:15:46STAND WITH THE RIGHT?
WITH THOSE POSITIONS ON COMMON
00:15:52CORE, SALES TAX, TAXING BIG OIL,
THERE IS NO POSITION FOR HIM ON
00:15:56THE RIGHT AND IT IS ALREADY
CROWDED OVER THERE ANYWAY.
00:15:59I THINK KASICH HAS MOVED TO THE
MIDDLE, BUT IT BENEFITS THEM IN
00:16:06A WAY BECAUSE THERE IS NO ROOM
FOR HIM ON THE RIGHT.
00:16:08AARON: ONE OF THE REASONS THIS
BOOK EXISTS IS BECAUSE OH --
00:16:14KAREN: ONE OF THE REASONS THIS
BOOK EXISTS IS BECAUSE OHIO IS A
00:16:19BATTLE STATE.
OHIO DOES A LOT OF DECIDING.
00:16:25NO REPUBLICAN HAS WON WITHOUT
OHIO.
00:16:28NO DEMOCRAT HAS WON WITHOUT OHIO
SINCE JOHN KENNEDY.
00:16:30YOU QUOTE MITT ROMNEY.
IT'S LIKE RULES ARE RULES UNTIL
00:16:34SOMETHING HAPPENS WHEN THEY'RE
NOT THE RULES.
00:16:37YOU THINK OF OHIO COULD BREAK
THE RULES THIS TIME?
00:16:41>> I DON'T THINK SO.
CERTAINLY, IT'S A LONG RECORD
00:16:47THAT GOES BACK A LONG TIME.
YOU MENTIONED JOHN KENNEDY.
00:16:50I DID NOT KNOW UNTIL I DID THE
RESEARCH THAT KENNEDY WAS
00:16:55CAMPAIGNING IN OHIO THE DAY
AFTER THE FIRST TELEVISED DEBATE
00:17:00WITH NIXON.
KENNEDY ENDED UP WINNING THE
00:17:01ELECTION, BUT HE DOES IT THROUGH
OHIO, AND IT BUGS HIM.
00:17:06HE MAKES A SPEECH IN COLUMBUS
WHERE HE SAYS NOWHERE IN THE
00:17:12COUNTRY DO I GET A WARMER
WELCOME, AND I GOT A LAUGH.
00:17:23I THINK ALL THE CANDIDATES
PLANTS THEIR FLAG HERE WITH THE
00:17:26EXPECTATION THAT THEY ARE GOING
TO WIN.
00:17:28IS IT MATHEMATICALLY POSSIBLE?
OF COURSE.
00:17:30THE JOHN MCCAIN SAID HE KNEW
IMMEDIATELY WHEN OHIO FELL INTO
00:17:34THOUSAND EIGHT THAT HE WAS NOT
GOING TO BE PRESIDENT.
00:17:36-- FELL IN 2008 THAT HE WAS NOT
GOING TO BE PRESIDENT.
00:17:43HE SAID THE EYES OF THE WORLD
ARE ALWAYS ON OHIO BECAUSE IT IS
00:17:48GOING TO BE, AT LEAST FOR THE
FORESEEABLE FUTURE, THE PLACE
00:17:52THAT DETERMINES THE WINNER.
KAREN: DO YOU THINK NATIONAL
00:18:00PEOPLE RESENT OHIO FOR THAT
ROLE?
00:18:01>> I THINK JOHN KERRY DID.
WE COVERED HIM WHEN HE MADE HIS
00:18:08FIRST APPEARANCE IN THE STATE.
-- I THINK MITT ROMNEY DID.
00:18:14WE COVERED HIM WHEN HE MADE HIS
FIRST APPEARANCE IN THE STATE.
00:18:15THE FIRST THING HE SAID WAS IT'S
ALWAYS NICE TO BE BACK IN WOODY
00:18:21HAYES TERRITORY AND HE SORT OF
GRIMACED WHEN HE SAID IT.
00:18:23AND SOMEONE WHISPERED TO ME I
DON'T THINK WE WILL HEAR THAT
00:18:28SONG AGAIN.
AND WE DIDN'T.
00:18:29HE MADE COMMENTS ABOUT I COULD
BE THE FIRST TO WIN THIS
00:18:34ELECTION WITHOUT OHIO.
I THINK THERE CAN BE REGIONAL
00:18:40RESENTMENT.
YOU AND I COULD SIT HERE ON THE
00:18:42SHOW AND PREDICT 40 STATES RIGHT
NOW WITHOUT ANY CAMPAIGN OR EVEN
00:18:46KNOWING WHO THE REPUBLICAN
NOMINEE IS GOING TO BE AND WE
00:18:51WOULD BE CORRECT.
FLORIDA, VIRGINIA, AND OHIO ARE
00:18:56ULTIMATELY GOING TO DETERMINE IF
HILLARY CLINTON IS THE NEXT
00:18:58PRESIDENT.
KAREN: BUT IOWA GETS ALL THE
00:19:02ATTENTION.
KICK --
00:19:05>> UNFORTUNATELY, IT DOES.
I GOT INTO A BIG DEBATE ON MY
00:19:09SHOW WITH GOVERNOR BILL SUCK
ABOUT THE IOWA CAUCUS.
00:19:12IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE --
GOVERNOR BILL SACK ABOUT THE
00:19:18IOWA CAUCUS.
IT WAS OPPOSED TO BE A
00:19:20CONVERSATION ABOUT AGRICULTURE.
BOTH POLITICAL PARTIES HAVE
00:19:25PRETTY MUCH DONE AWAY WITH
CAUCUSES CHOOSING DELEGATES.
00:19:28I THINK BOTH PARTIES NEED TO
PULL THE PLUG AND START WITH, IF
00:19:32NOT NEW HAMPSHIRE BY ITSELF, A
SERIES OF REGIONAL PRIMARIES,
00:19:38ONE PERSON, ONE VOTE, ONE
CANDIDATE, THAT'S THE WAY IT
00:19:42SHOULD BE.
KAREN: YOU COMPARE THE GOVERNOR
00:19:46TO RONALD REAGAN IN HIS IDEALISM
AND RICHARD NIXON.
00:19:52YOU ALSO TOLD A STORY ABOUT HIM
GOING WAY OFF SCRIPT IN TAMPA IN
00:19:582012 WHEN HE DID NOT HAVE A
TELEPROMPTER.
00:20:00YOU ALSO MENTION SHARON BROWN,
THE EASIEST TO DETECT IF HE'S
00:20:07TELLING A LIE.
HAVE YOU HEARD BACK FROM THEIR
00:20:12OR THEIR PEOPLE ABOUT HOW THEY
ARE PORTRAYED IN THE BOOK?
00:20:13>> I DOUBT SENATOR BROWN IS
DISAPPOINTED IN HIS LABEL.
00:20:19SENATOR BROWN DOESN'T TRY TO
SPIN IT LIKE SOME OF THE OTHER
00:20:25POLITICIANS DO.
TO BE FAIR, I THINK EVERYBODY
00:20:28THINKS IT'S FAIR.
IT'S NOT A NEWSLETTER.
00:20:29IT'S NOT FOR ANY POLITICIAN OR
ANY POLITICAL PARTY.
00:20:34IT'S A REFEREE WRITING A JOURNAL
OF HOW HE COVERED 2008 IN SOUTH
00:20:39CAROLINA AND 2012 IN OHIO, AND
THE REST IS FOR EVERYBODY ELSE
00:20:45TO MAKE A DETERMINATION.
KAREN: IT READS TO ME A LOT LIKE
00:20:48"GAME CHANGE," WHICH WAS WRITTEN
AFTER THE 2008 ELECTION.
00:20:52IT WAS THE STORY OF WHAT PEOPLE
DIDN'T GET A CHANCE TO SEE.
00:20:59>> I WENT INTO A BOOKSTORE IN
ARIZONA TO SEE WERE THEY PLACED
00:21:04THE BOOK, AND IT WAS NEXT TO A
USED COPY OF "GAME CHANGE."
00:21:09I TOOK A PICTURE.
I THINK IT'S GREAT.
00:21:11IT REALLY IS THAT KIND OF BOOK.
WE ARE ALL RATING -- WAITING FOR
00:21:18OTHER PEOPLE TO RATE THEIR
BOOKS.
00:21:18REPORTERS WRITE FOR A LIVING.
IT IS DIFFICULT TO GO HOME IN
00:21:26THE MIDDLE OF CAMPAIGNS AND PUT
EVENTS IN ANY KIND OF ORDER.
00:21:31I HAD PRETTY MUCH TOLD RANDOM
HOUSE IN 2012 R.I.M STEPPING
00:21:38AWAY TO WRITE THIS BOOK.
BUT THERE -- IN 2012I AM
00:21:43STEPPING AWAY TO WRITE THIS
BOOK.
00:21:44I THINK THAT'S WHY THE RESPONSE
HAS BEEN WHAT IT HAS BEEN, VERY
00:21:49POSITIVE OUT OF THIS GATE.
KAREN: THERE IS A LOT OF
00:21:55BIOGRAPHY, BEHIND THE SCENES,
NUTS AND BOLTS THAT FOR
00:21:58POLITICAL JUNKIES LIKE ME, WE
THINK OH, YEAH, I REMEMBER THAT
00:22:03WHEN IT HAPPENED.
>> BY THE WAY, YOUR BOOK WITH
00:22:06JOE WILL BE MUCH BETTER.
LET ME JUST GET THE BALL
00:22:08ROLLING.
KAREN: THANKS.
00:22:10THE WHOLE IDEA OF WRITING A BOOK
THAT YOU KNOW JOURNALISTS ARE
00:22:14GOING TO READ.
WE ARE TRAINED TO BE DETAIL
00:22:17ORIENTED, NITPICKY AND CRITICAL.
WERE YOU WORRIED ABOUT BEING
00:22:21CRITICAL?
>> YES.
00:22:22TO BE PERFECTLY HONEST.
WHEN IT WAS WRITTEN AND FINALLY
00:22:28READY TO BE SENT FOR REVIEW'S IT
WENT OUT FOR REVIEWS TO CNN, ABC
00:22:37, GOVERNOR STRICKLAND, SENATOR
PORTMAN.
00:22:39THERE WAS A SELECT LIST.
I'M GOING TO BE HONEST WITH YOU.
00:22:42AT THAT POINT, WHEN YOU REALIZE
OTHER PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE
00:22:46READING THIS THING, I KNOW WHAT
I WROTE, BUT CAN OTHER PEOPLE
00:22:53INTERPRET IT?
THANKFULLY, THE REVIEWS CAME
00:22:55BACK POSITIVE AND FAIRLY
QUICKLY.
00:22:56AGAIN, THE BOOK IS JUST CALLING
IT LIKE I SEE IT.
00:23:02IT'S SORT OF THE POINT OF THE
BOOK, IS THAT IT'S MY TAKE AND
00:23:10THEN IT COULD SPUR THE DEBATE
ABOUT IT.
00:23:11KAREN: YOU DID HAVE TO LEAVE
SOME THINGS ON THE CUTTING ROOM
00:23:16FLOOR, SO TO SPEAK.
I REMEMBER YOU SHARING WITH
00:23:19FACEBOOK FRIENDS SOME OF THE
PICTURES THAT DIDN'T MAKE THE
00:23:24CUT.
>> YOU MENTIONED AT THE
00:23:27BEGINNING OF THE INTERVIEW, THE
THUNDERBIRD STORY AND THERE IS
00:23:33ALSO A TOYS FOR TOTS DRIVE WHEN
WE GOT FOGGED IN.
00:23:41THERE WAS A DEBATE AS TO WHETHER
THESE STORIES FIT IN THE BOOK OR
00:23:44NOT.
IN THE END, IT WAS LIKE PUTTING
00:23:48TRUMP ON THE COVER, WHICH WAS
ALSO A DEBATE.
00:23:51I DECIDED I DIDN'T THINK PEOPLE
WOULD FIND IT TOO DISJOINTED TO
00:23:56HAVE THESE MILITARY STORIES IN
THERE.
00:23:57KAREN: I WON'T ASK YOU WHAT YOUR
FAVORITE STORY IS IN HERE, BUT I
00:24:03ILL -- I WILL ASK WHAT YOU THINK
IS THE MOST IMPORTANT CHAPTER OR
00:24:08MOST IMPORTANT SEGMENT, REALLY
INFORMATIONAL, TELLING PEOPLE
00:24:12ABOUT THE NUTS AND BOLTS OF HOW
THINGS ARE PUT TOGETHER.
00:24:15YOU HAVE THE WHOLE END OF THE
BOOK WHERE YOU TALK ABOUT MONEY
00:24:19AND POLITICS.
WHAT YOU THINK IS THE MOST
00:24:20IMPORTANT THING?
>> I THINK POLITICOS WILL ENJOY
00:24:27IT.
I HOPE IT'S CLEAR THAT I LOVE
00:24:29POLITICS.
I'VE BEEN AROUND IT MY WHOLE
00:24:32LIFE.
COVERING THESE ISSUES IN THESE
00:24:35CAMPAIGNS.
I DO END ON A CONCERNING NOTE, A
00:24:38NEGATIVE NOTE, IF YOU WILL,
WHICH IS DARK MONEY.
00:24:40THE CONCERN I HAVE IS THAT ABOVE
AND BEYOND ANYTHING ELSE --
00:24:49BECAUSE EVERYTHING ELSE YOU CAN
KIND OF CONTROL.
00:24:51EVERYTHING ELSE YOU KIND OF KNOW
WHAT HAPPENING AND CAN KIND OF
00:24:55CONTROL IT, BUT DARK MONEY, WE
JUST DON'T KNOW OR THAT MONEY IS
00:24:58COMING FROM, HOW MUCH OF IT, AND
WHERE IT'S GOING, AND WE CAN'T
00:25:01CREATE LEGISLATION TO FOLLOW IT
TO SEE WHO IS FUNDING WHAT.
00:25:08I THINK THE SUPREME COURT IS
GOING TO HAVE TO TAKE ANOTHER
00:25:11WHACK AT THAT.
I REALLY DO.
00:25:12KAREN: AND WE HAVE THIS TO
SHARE.
00:25:17IT IS A GREAT BOOK.
I ENJOYED READING IT.
00:25:22I HOPE YOU ENJOYED WRITING IT.
>> CAN I COME BACK?
00:25:25KAREN: I WILL HAVE YOU BACK
ANYTIME.
00:25:28THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR BEING
HERE.
00:25:29AND THAT'S IT FOR THIS WEEK.
FOR MY COLLEAGUES AT OHIO PUBLIC
00:25:31RADIO AND TELEVISION, THANKS FOR
WATCHING.
00:25:32IF YOU'D LIKE TO ASK QUESTIONS,
MAKE COMMENTS, OR WATCH THIS
00:25:34WEEK'S SHOW OR EARLIER EPISODES,
PLEASE VISIT OUR WEBSITE AT
00:25:37STATENEWS.ORG, OR WATCH ON THE
OHIO CHANNEL'S WEBSITE OR AT
00:25:39IDEASTREAM.ORG/OHIO.
AND YOU CAN FOLLOW JO INGLES,
00:25:42ANDY CHOW AND ME ON TWITTER.
MERRY CHRISTMAS AND PLEASE JOIN
00:25:48, US AGAIN NEXT TIME FOR "THE
STATE OF OHIO".
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00:26:42CREATIVELY AND EXPERIENCE THE
JOY OF LEARNING.
00:26:46ONLINE AT OHEA.ORG.
Note : Transcripts are compiled from uncorrected captions